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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1532962150 Message started by Lon on 07/30/18 at 15:49:10 |
Title: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/30/18 at 15:49:10 I thought I would start a general discussion thread about the sound and "feel" of a system that now has 25th Anniversary components installed, whether the SE84UFO-25, the SE84UFO3-25 Monoblocks, the CSP3-25, or soon to be experienced ZMA-25 amps. Or combinations of the amps and the preamp. As the SE84UFO25 ship and with some of those and Monoblocks and preamps already out in the field there's already quite a bit to discuss. I have the SE84UFO3-25 amplifiers in my system and then added the CSP3-25 to the system. The amplifiers transformed the sound of my system bringing me the speed and dynamics I loved when using the Taboo Mk IV as a speaker amp in my system but also featured the body and richness that the Torii Mk III imparted to the sound when it was my amplifier of choice. And on top of that is mixed in the wonderful "wholesome" sound that the single-ended topology brings to the plate. In the context of my audio journey this could almost be called a "miracle amp" as it brings together all the characteristics I've wanted and enjoyed in amplifiers into one pair of amps. Where before three amplifiers would encompass all these qualities but not one, now there is a pair that give me all that I wanted before. On top of that I now get from the "small" SV83 tube type all the qualities that I admire in that tube type AND all the other qualities I sought in the EL34/KT66/6V6/6CA7 etc. type. I thought I would miss and yearn for aspects of the bigger tubes. . . but I don't. I just don't. Which surprised me at first, but with the passage of a few months. . . I still just don't. When the CSP3-25 was added to the system I got more of the same "goodies" of tone and dynamics and even though I have a fantastic preamp in the ZTPRE still in the system, the CSP3-25 brings me a further layer of gain control that allows me to get all I need power-wise from the system for my speakers, giving me just a bit more headroom ensuring I don't run into distortion in the normal range of my audio and video usage. I had considered a pair of higher efficiency speakers but with the omni-directional/directional magic of the HR-1s I realize I don't need new speakers now, which is a relief as I love these speakers. (And as a cherry on top the headphone playback of the CSP3-25 rivals that of the Taboo Mk IV while also using the ZROCK2, and only missing the "Lucid" mode that I do enjoy playing with, but can now do so in a second system with the Taboo Mk IV as the amplifier). I'm now enjoying the best sound I've ever had, and I can "skin the cat" many ways with different rectifier, regulation, input, driver and output tube combinations, like combining different ingredients to make a distinctive curry. Yes, I spent money this year that I possibly shouldn't have, but I am so glad I did, the enjoyment received is worth it now and will pay further dividends over the years to come. On top of that my understanding of audio is growing as a by-product of Steve's search and discovery of audio playback. In adjusting and tube-rolling, mode-selecting and cabling and isolation changes and listening I begin to learn more and more about the system and the means to reap the benefits from it. I'm more engaged with the material I play than ever before as a consequence. I know I for one would love to hear the impressions and experiences and thoughts about the 25th Anniversary experience from others. . . so share 'em if you got 'em. ;) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 07/30/18 at 17:21:20 Lon, As always, very nicely written and well articulated. I really pull a great deal from the amazingly descriptive posts. Helps me better focus my on my system and where I want to go with it. In short, THANKS for posting. Best, Scott |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/30/18 at 17:36:46 Thanks Scott. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Stefan on 07/31/18 at 06:21:19 Thanks Lon, very nice writeup! For me the ufo25 changed my view of what 2 Watts really are. Before I thought I could never live with less than 15-25 W, which is why I bought the Torii 3 years ago. Given how much sweat and love went into the ufo25 I thought I need to get one and give it a try, half expecting I'll may send it back. I wanted to get some better speakers than the ERRx so I got some 91db Tannoy Cheviot. What the ufo25 does with these is amazing, very beautiful, open, dynamic, no sign of being harsh in the highs or boomy in the lows (the ERRx had that problem in my room with the Torii), but still lots of base and highs. And it can play up to concert level volume! I would have never thought this little amp can do that with those large speakers. Now I'm starting to think that there is little need for more than the ufo25 if you don't already have absolute high end speakers that are power hungry. My 2cts: rather get new speakers and the UFO25. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/31/18 at 06:55:03 Thanks for sharing Stefan. Yes, the perception of power (and usable power) of this amplifier design has to be experienced to be believed! Power, and with a coherence top to bottom that I haven't heard before to this extent as well. As well as heirloom quality build. Phenomenal amplifiers and preamplifiers. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 07/31/18 at 13:29:08 This my third week with the UFO25 and I can say with certainty that for the first time in many years with many systems I am experiencing a coherent and full presentation that 45Hz - 20KHz allows, which is the stated range of my speakers. No drop outs, it’s all there. The bass at 45 HZ is the type one would expect to get from a higher power ss amp with the resolution that puts a smile on ones face. This is about the the dynamic ebb and flow of music, the dynamic slam of music, and the emotional finess of music and voices. The reaction of the few friends that have heard the system to date is always the same... they abruptly stop talking when the music starts and remain transfixed even when it ends. So what’s next??? When released the CSP3-25 and now that the frequency range of 45HZ-20KHZ has been ‘nailed’ I’m ready to start working with a non powered sub woofer system to extend the range down to 20HZ. No I will not be getting rid of the S3HOXRS, they’re too fast, I doubt I could get what they do in any other speaker. I’m not saying that the’re the best for everyone simply the best fit for me. There’s a sneaky startle factor to them that prevents one from getting bored. Now if I can get the lower octave that is as fast, I’m there. This is not about not having enough, it’s about wanting it all. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/31/18 at 14:21:24 John, that's a very interesting and precise synopsis of the SE84UFO-25 in your system. I too have had friends and family listen and watch with my system and I didn't ask for feedback, but they were totally involved with the music or show they were hearing or watching and hearing and that told me a lot about the seductive nature of the "very correct" sound. With the ZROCK2 I can dial in the frequency balance and forget about the hardware and just listen . . . . That's perhaps the biggest "invisible" benefit of the amps. I haven't felt the need for a subwoofer in my system. (The HR-1 are rated down to 32 so that may be why) . . . But I do understand the desire to "have it all!" |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lonely Raven on 07/31/18 at 15:34:29 I love the descriptions, and agree with them. The amp is somehow more engaging due to its accuracy. It reminds me of when I was bringing my foam diffusers "on tour" to other peoples listening rooms - you'd simply see everyone getting more lost in the music, goose bumps, even more emotional. And somehow the 25th does this all by itself. I tried giving my ZMA some airtime for a couple weeks while experimenting with different tubes, and I'm already back to my pre-prototype modded Zen. And you guys with the real 25th amps have it even better! I do hope Steve is able to give the ZMA some of this love, because I'm missing the horsepower of the bigger amp, but really enjoy the involving nature of the Zen. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by lazb on 07/31/18 at 18:43:50 We each have our own unique problems and perceptions. It seems to me that, other than not being able to address the acoustics in my listening space, the SE84UFO25, with the ZROCK2 and the DNA2 speakers ALL of my previous issues with a multitude of years, iterations and dollars spent on HI-FI(music) systems have been solved in a beautiful and most enjoyable way! Simple praises to the Master seem quite inadequate. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/31/18 at 19:00:17 Thanks for weighing in Joe, original prototype owner par excellence! I know that the amp in our untreated home can't really match the magic of a treated room, but it can still be the best we've had. My amp and preamp have gone through improvements since I first plugged them in, seasoning is a wonderful thing, and learning to situate and treat them right is a fun process. . . . . |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by busterfree on 08/01/18 at 04:06:44 Quote:
Let us know what you find. I wish Decware and company offered a definitive solution to this problem short of the Imperials. Maybe I am not connecting the dots. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by busterfree on 08/01/18 at 04:10:22 I feel like the CSP3-25 has helped bass in my TV/DVD system, and I am using a $20 DAC from Amazon. I have a powered Klipsch sub, but I would like to try a passive stereo sub solution at some point. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/01/18 at 10:42:41 Juan -- a 20 dollar DAC? The CSP3-25 really does improve sources! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by busterfree on 08/01/18 at 13:48:24 It is an $11 DAC (Musou 43223-535). It does really well. With the CSP3-25, I was able to turn the sub level down more than before, and I think it blends and supplements the overall presentation better. I get no listener fatigue. The CSP3-25 is feeding an SE84UFO2. The 25th Anniversary upgrade for the CSP3 is definitely a worthwhile investment. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 08/01/18 at 14:13:39 I’ve talked to Steve and Louis. Louis feels that for the sub to be as fast as the S3HOXRS it needs to be powered, at least with the drivers that he works with. I do not want to introduce a powered sub. If a powered sub is the only solution at this time, I will leave things as they are because I am not wanting for any more bass head room. Interestingly, I have had a number of speakers that were 45HZ+. Yet none of the previous systems were able to give the bass density, headroom and articulation that I am getting now and that’s from this d**n 4” drivers!! What I want to try to achieve is to be able to get the base extension that allows one to hear the low organ notes or the full range of a piano. In fact that is what started this. I was listening to Cyrus Plays Elvis and I was able to hear some of that lower extension of the piano that prior to the UF025 I could not, at least not in the dynamic manner that it was now evident. My wife said “I never heard THAT before”. This is the type of bass extension that sort of “rolls out” and fills the space of the venue and is present in my space. So, I’ve been spoiled by the UFO25. When is enough, enough when more could be so much ‘sweater’ now that I know what is achievable? It’s not that I want to enhance what is now there in any way, in fact I don’t want to spoil it. The UFO25 is like a drug, addictive, but not hazordous to your health, just your pocket book depending on how far you want to take it. ;) This is going to take some time. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Ellsworth on 08/02/18 at 02:43:04 Joman, I have had good luck matching up my Omega Super Alnico monitors with The Omega 8 inch sub. It doesn't go super low but it blends seamlessly and provides an excellent foundation and soundstage. It may be worth talking to Louis to see what he says. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 08/02/18 at 11:42:35 Thanks Ellsworth, I have spoken with Louis. He’s about to release a 10” sub also. All of Louis’s subs are powered. I do think that the Omega subs would integrate but I’m not so sure that I would end up with what I want which is low octave extension only. Very few instruments go below 40HZ, Organ, Piano and Harp are three that come to mind. Steve’s post regarding his hooking up the UFO25 to the Imperials and the results that he achieved is what got me intrigued and started on this path. The Imperials won’t fit in my space so I am trying to find a suitable alternative. Mating to the S3HOXRS makes this even harder as they are so fast and at 45HZ, with the UFO25 and the ZR2 are entering the “realm” of low octiave experience, just enough to tease (you have no idea how many times these speakers have P*&sed me off with the teasing >:(). The S3HOXRS with the Zen, especially with the UFO25 and ZR2 are an enigma. There is no way that this combination should be able to do what it is doing if one was to approach this with ‘conventional’ thinking. But they are! So this is going to take some time just for me to make sure that I don’t mess up what I have. Appreciate the input. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 08/04/18 at 01:41:19 Another update: I started with the same tube set that I used in my UFO2: Signal Tube Seimens E88CC, Power Tubes Svetlana NOS SV83 Winged C and the Sophia 274B Aqua. This gave me a point of reference. In a conversation with Steve, he was interested in knowing if they would remain the same in the UFO25. Well they’ve changed: Signal Tube: Valvo PCC88 (Hamburg mfg.), Power Tubes 6P15P-EV Red Tip. The Sophia 274B Aqua remains. One other change was in my CSP-3. The Signal Tube was a Valvo PCC88 but now is a 6N1P Red Tip. The purpose of this was not to improve anything or to roll for the purpose of finding a “better” set than is provided stock. It was simply to have a point of reference in order to determine just what the difference would be between the UFO2 and UFO25. There is a difference for sure! However to compare the two would be to completely miss the point. The point being is that the UFO2 is still a great amp and probably all that many will need in order to be satisfied. The UFO25 is in a different league, so if your going to compare it to another amp, compare it to amps that are in the same league - Reference Grade, if you dare! As for me, I have absolutely no desire to do so! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/04/18 at 02:07:22 It's great that you've done some tube-rolling and found a new set to enjoy. I still prefer the SV83 and have built around that, though I know I could work with the stock red-tipped and build an interesting set around those as well. But I have about 20 pair of the SV83 so I might as well use those up first! And I've settled on Amperex as the tube brand and 7308s in the two 25th Anniversary components and 6DJ8s in the ZTPRE and a 12AU7 in the ZROCK2. The family sound is a "real" thing and with the treble cut circuit in the Monoblocks and the ZROCK2 and all the gain riding possibilities in the system I'm getting sound that I just want to keep and "forget about" changing as I revel in the wonderful fields of sound this system lets me hike into. Really really happy with the "25th Anniversary" experience. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 08/04/18 at 12:48:24 Yes, I would certainly agree with a significant part of the UFO25 being the “real thing”. And I too am finding it harder to roll once you combine the “real thing” with the connection that I get at the “emotional level”. I seem to have an attraction to a system that is hyper detailed but not strident or hard and that I find is not so easy to achieve. In my CSP3 I have the 6N11 for the output and in my ZR2 the Seimens ECC82 nickel or silver plate. The S3HOXRS dig out the minutest of details that this combo puts out. Also the energy that the system now throws into the room is so palpable. I think that the UFO25 is able to “control” and “harmonize” all of this and that is why I am able to increase the detail along with the energy to the level that the system now puts out. I don’t think my UFO2 could “manage” all of those factors as well and so the NOS Svetlana SV83 would still be my choice in it. What I am getting now is a layering in space that seems to transport one to the venue in way that is very hard to put into words. I sit in the sofa hit play and I’m in a different place. The vocals can be downright scary in that they immediately connect with the core or inside of a person and grab hold in a way that is totally disarming and immersive. This may sound over the top and even I will reflect and question whether I am going over the top in trying to describe the experience in my space. Then the next day I turn the system on, hit play, and damn it, there it is again only better and I still end up second guessing myself until the next day wondering if it will all happen again. I hope that eventually this second guessing will come to an end, although it is rather “interesting”. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/04/18 at 13:25:36 Detail is an aspect that I can struggle with not necessarily with my system but with the material I listen to. I have tens of thousands of discs now and I don't buy them for audio quality but for the music. Many sound fantastic. Some sound pretty mediocre. If I build my system around mining the most detail, the latter sound pretty bad, worse than they can if I don't highlight all the detail possible. I also don't and can't have a "treated room" and so other adjustments become my focus. The SV83 is the output tube that works best, there's a touch of forgiving warmth there that the military version doesn't have, and the extra smidgeon of clarity in the military version can be just a bit too much. The 6N11 tube type is too much for me, and I can build a system around the 6N5P type or the Amperex 7308 and similar type. The Amperex have perhaps the best "signature" for my needs allowing the mediocre recordings to be more of what they can be, and still deliver the best possible balance of detail and frequency character. But again everything is a balancing act, with speaker choices, cabling choices, isolation treatments and power treatment all influencing factors. These 25th Anniversary components will let you hear and feel all that goes before them, in a way that I have never experienced with another amp. You mention the emotional impact--I can see my twenty year plus journey with Decware as an increase in this emotional content as I explored the line over the years. I got into audio seriously as a response to ceasing playing music with others, and wanted to connect with the emotional response I had found while playing music with others. Step by step I'm getting there and I jumped to higher steps with these new components. Rather than detail I find these components greatest revelation to be an empowering cohesiveness that just adds solidity and "correctness" to the sound, the full realization of the "single-ended" sonic nature. I think that the more that can experience this the better, and I predict that these will strengthen Decware's economic standing. At least that's my hope, and why I have always been a vocal supporter of Decware on the web. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 08/04/18 at 13:42:50 I would agree in all respects. One other factor that I can’t seem to change or wan’t to is me. I’ve been accused of being a perfectionist. Some actually view it as a flaw. Can you believe that??? Well it’s not my fault they are not perfect! 8-) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/04/18 at 13:50:33 Hey, when I saw how my grandfather's obsession with perfection made him a very unhappy man throughout most of his life (and a mean control freak) I backed away from those qualities in myself, and allowed a bit of chaos to loosen my own grip. But if you are not unhappy the quest for perfection sure can have great results! For a certain portion of my working life I was part of a team that really tried to implement "Total Quality Management." That's an interesting business process and I think in some ways I've been implementing that in my audio pursuits. The curse of these Decware components we all have in common is that we can hear so much! The good. . . with the bad. And we get drawn into the process of constant evaluation and improvement. . . and it's an ongoing and enveloping process. I keep trying to rest on my laurels. . . and enjoy what I have. These 25th Anniversary products are in some ways making this easier as they sound so damned GREAT! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 08/04/18 at 14:20:52 Lon, that’s the key to “perfectionism”. Don’t micro manage and try to control others. I learned a long time ago that control is an illusion. I’m in the field of “management” often of turn around situations. In all cases people are the key. My role is to find the strengths in others, respect them and get them involved in creating an environment in which they can achieve their best. I try to empower by facilitating and supporting. Hope for the best and never give up. I use the same approach in pretty much everything I do, including this hobby. Yes, the 25 Anniversary products do make this easier. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Donnie on 08/04/18 at 15:44:30 There is no such thing as perfection! I work in the "perfection" business. As much as we try to make things perfect, it seems that the only thing that ever happens is that we come up with a better method of measuring our output. They seem to always keep adding more zeros after the decimal point. After a while you make the realization that all you have to do is make your product or process "good enough". In this hobby we try to make our copies of performances sound as if they were live, but we haven't yet achieved this level. What we have at this point is something that sounds good enough, but not close to the real thing. If you were walking down the street and heard a song playing on a piano from inside of a house vs. the very same thing being played from a very good stereo I'm pretty sure that you would immediately know which one was the real thing. But it sure is fun chasing the dragon isn't it? |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/04/18 at 15:51:49 John, that's wise. I had less restraint when I was in the throes of perfectionism, and that was probably why I never became what I most wanted to become, a writer--I could never stop editing and pruning etc. Abandoning all pretense of perfection made me much happier. People fascinate me and I relied on them as well;I was never happier in work than when I was the assistant to the Director and office manager of the human resources office. People matter more than anything. Donnie, yes, though in my case in civil service (state level) "good enough for government work" was for the most part the benchmark, and that was not "good enough" for me. I went against the grain, but don't regret it. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 08/04/18 at 16:49:04 What is perfection? Some think in the terms of absolute perfection and not relative or perfection within boundaries. If you are God then perfection is in terms of absolute. If you are human then it’s in terms of relative or within boundaries. The things that we can change not the things that we can’t. Extreme’s are not good. One extreme leads to constant disatisfaction the other extreme leads to the acceptance of the lowest common denominator and limits our own potential. Balance is needed. Accepting limits is necessary. In the case corporations perfection often means perfect greed measured by 0’s at the end of a figure. I worked in that environment and had to leave because the measure became the goal often to their own detriment. I could not grow personally in that environment. A table is not perfect I the absolute sense, but it is perfect for what it is designed to do. So how does all the above apply with respect to what I am trying to achieve with my system or is it all simply academic theory? Take the piano as reproduced by my system. Is it perfect - NO. Can I work to achieve a result that is indistinguishable from the real thing - NO. But what I am getting now has enough of the key elements that give the illusion of the real thing except for the lower octave. I know that pursuing the lower octave within limits is achievable. It’ll take effort and it will not be easy but if achieved even if not perfect in the absolute sense, wow what an end result that would be. For some what I have is more than good enough and actually it is for me. But what if??? Those are the words that cause me to try to achieve the next possibility. If I do not succeed no big deal. At least I tried and learned. I do not look at the end result or the figures as success or failure. To me it’s the journey that counts. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/04/18 at 17:01:16 I definitely understand your position and wish you the best of luck in your quest! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/10/18 at 18:20:12 The Monoblocks and the CSP3-25 have to be fully broken in and on the long sweet process of "seasoning" now. I'm enjoying sound that I just have never had before and I feel so fortunate to have this wonderful combination of components to relax into by listening. . . . I've made one significant change this week: I replaced the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B in the CSP3-25 with an Arcturus globe Type 80 rectifier. (The Sophia Electric Aqua 274Bs in the Monoblocks remain in place). The Arcturus is imparting a further dab of richness to the sound. The Sophia Electric is a wonderful sound too, but for Redbook (the majority of my listening) there's just a bit more of an ease to the sound with the Arcturus. This is the only globe Type 80 that I have but I'll soon have at least one other to play with, so we'll see what a different brand brings to the plate. Tube-rolling is . . . welcomed by these components as they show the innate nature of a tube and most sound great. It's hard to choose and "stay put" with a complement, but it's also fun to get a new window into the musical view by rolling. Edit to add: I also changed out a '44 pair of RCA OD3 regulation tubes for a pair of '40 RCA OD3. Subtle shift but so far a positive one sonically, and this pair is the closest matched as far as light and color when powered on of any pair of regulation tubes I've had in the Monoblocks. I know that doesn't mean anything much but it's a nice visual touch. More SE84UFO25s should be hitting their owners soon (and I bet their arrival and implementation into systems will feel like a real hit!) Please share impressions if you have them! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/15/18 at 01:06:29 Gosh, these amps let you hear everything. I was enjoying the Arcturus Type 80 globe rectifier in the CSP3-25 so much that I decided to go back to the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B rectifier in that component for a quick comparison. Of course every thing sounds great with a huge sound field, but there was a focus and yet ease to the sound with the Arcturus that is not present with the Aqua. So the Arcturus is back in and will stay until the two other Type 80 globe rectifiers I bought arrive, probably later this week and early next week (a Cunningham and an RCA, both of which look very similar and who knows may be close enough matched to try in the Monoblocks). These 25th Anniversary components just have me swimming in music. I'm going through my shelves and just reaching for discs thinking "wonder how this will sound." I already know the answer: as good as they can sound! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/24/18 at 15:51:29 After a week of tube-rolling. . . I'm back where I started: Amperex input tubes in both amps and preamps, Western Electric bottle-shaped OD3s, and Sophia Electric Aqua 274B rectifiers. I did receive a pair of Cunningham Type 80 Globe rectifiers and ran them a few days in the SE84UFO3-25 Monoblocks. I like them, a lot, but although they had a smooth warmth I missed the tight dynamics and clarity of the Sophia Electrics. A Sophia Electric was interchanged with an RCA Type 80 globe as the CSP3-25 preamp and that was nice with either pair of rectifiers in the amp but again the Sophia Electric was the best choice, all three rectifiers in place just gave the sound an energy and presence that I have decided works best for me. That surprised me because I thought I would prefer the Type 80 sound. . .and as much as I like it with some material I don't prefer it overall. The Type 80 globes all sound nice in my second system though, so there's that, and I can always put them in the main system as a "different" sound or for well-recorded classical music where they eo have a great synergy. Every day I spend as much time as I can with the system. . . whether driving speakers or headphones this is a wonderful system, giving me sound quality I only dreamed of having a few decades ago! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/24/18 at 19:48:36 I've already made a change, as a pair of OD3W tubes made by Raytheon arrived that I ordered last weekend. Interesting tube and a meaty sound so far, which I suspected as they are not "bottle-shaped" and are very rugged as you can see. It's amazing in these amps what a single tube change can do. And in any of the tube positions. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/29/18 at 21:55:31 Wow! These OD3W tubes are really nice, they impart a slightly warm smoothness that other OD3 I have don't and that I didn't miss til there it is. They fit the other tubes in my complement so well! This pair works so well that today I found someone selling a full sleeve of five at about 8 dollars each and bought a sleeve. . . I want to be sure to have these for the years to come! ![]() |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Acetone on 08/30/18 at 01:26:50 Nice tubes! After I've burned in the UFO25 100 hours I'll probably roll a Mullard PCC189/7DJ8 in, as well as a Raytheon OD3a. Currently have Mullard OD3a and Lorenz 7DJ8 in there. Just finished 2 hour session before dinner and system is sounding in a word - "overwhelming" !! Lon, I know you are enjoying your system as well. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 09/04/18 at 15:05:17 I really am enjoying the system Ace. I am listening to the amps today after a three day weekend with headphones (great headphone sound from the CSP3-25 and the Sennheiser HD-800S but still. . .) I did a bit of isolation component re-arranging (went from four VooDoo Cable Iso-Pods to three under all but my PS Audio P10) and used the resulting six Iso-Pods in place of Aurios under my DVR and UDP-205, and changed some Herbie's Audio Lab "Ultrasonic Fat Dots" to Herbie's 1/2" ebony domes to lift the front of my speakers up a bit. Another layer of clarity and dynamics as a result. I've been tuning around the Raytheon OD3W tubes I have been using lately, I really like the effect they have on the system. I have six pair now, five more on the way, and I'm mailing a pair to Juan as he turned me on to the OD3 tube and I think he will like these. . . . The Decware 25th Anniversary Modified Experience. . . I'm glad I'm experiencing it! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by busterfree on 09/07/18 at 00:21:35 Quote:
Thanks Lon. I will put some hours on them in my SE84UFO3-25 this weekend. ![]() ![]() |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 09/07/18 at 01:06:52 Glad they got there. Hope you enjoy them. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by busterfree on 09/08/18 at 13:08:06 I am. They just spent 12 hours running in my TV system. I am giving that system a break and listening to music on my other system. Thanks again. [smiley=cheesy.gif] |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 09/08/18 at 14:27:05 You're welcome. I generally prefer "bottle-shaped" regulator tubes and rectifier tubes. But these "potato-masher" regulator tubes have a special sound that works well with the other tubes in the complement and can be a good foundation for the amps in my system. I now have five pair of the same date codes, I think I'm good for a while! Mark58 seems to have influenced my hoarding. . . ;) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 09/20/18 at 14:15:37 The 25th Anniversary Monoblocks and the 25th Anniversary CSP3 both continue to amaze me and show me more and more of what is possible with stereo reproduction. The ZROCK2 is a very important component in the system. I recently rolled in the Amperex 6085 and with this in the ZROCK2 there is a wide open feel and tonal balance and dynamic range seem seamlessly together in a way other tubes haven't presented yet. Even in a compromised room position the HR-1s disappear more than ever and the sound field is welcoming and breathing. During every session I'm reminded how everything I love in the Torii Mk III is still here in the stew and there's that cohesiveness that the single-ended Zen direct circuit brings. From the start the amps and now from its introduction the preamp demonstrate a new way to present detail: woven into the entire expanse, not distinct or highlighted. This helps bring you into the music, makes you feel like the microphone that is picking up the sound, puts "more there there." I'm also glad that I realized that adding the 25th Anniversary "wonder" that the CSP3-25 offers to the Taboo Mk IV for headphone listening would improve that experience. I now feel that the Sennheiser HD800S are great directly with the CSP3-25 but the best sound overall is the Audeze LCD-2 or the Oppo PM-1 with the Taboo Mk IV driven by the CSP3-25. That combo just gives huge sound, frequencies towering and so low, and wide sound. I really look forward to headphone listening, not how I had approached it before. I've done extensive tube-rolling, gain-riding and treble cut circuit and ZROCK2 adjusting and I think I'm THERE. I'm trying to not futz and change any further for a while. I have had two decades of happiness with Decware components in my system. However I have never been happier than I am now with my listening world. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/17/18 at 14:35:16 Today I am listening to the system and just reveling in the wonderful sound. I ask myself how can this get better. . . and I know it can with the 25th Anniversary Mods of the ZROCK2 and possibly with the ZLC. I really am eager to hear what the mods will bring to the ZROCK2 and know I have a long wait. I'll hear from others who have their ZROCK2s in for modification instead of having a new one built as I am. I think that will be the icing on the cake for the 25th Anniversary Modified Experience! As my Monoblocks and CSP3-25 have seasoned and really come into their own I've learned how many amplifiers I have simply by "riding the gain" between the ZBIT, CSP3-25 and the Monoblocks. (I leave my DAC preamp at 100 percent). I can have a rich and dreamy classic tube amp sound signature so to speak, a fast and dynamic and open one, and a world of shades in between. Add tube rolling into this and you have a universe of different potential sounds with the same source and speakers. The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience is not for the faint of hearts! But rewards are truly satisfying. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 12/17/18 at 15:08:13 Love this Thread. Keep the info/learning coming Lon. I look forward to my ZBIT (couple more months). Then, ZLC (Mar/April). I will never say never about getting another CSP3 (25th this time) and another run at a ZROCK2 (25th). It will be 18 years come this May/2019 for me with Decware. No stranger to their great music making gear either: "Keep calm and place an order." 8-) All purchased new... SE84CS TORII III SuperZenCKC Zen Styx Zen Mystery Amplifier CSP3 w/Jupiter Caps ZDSD w/Steve's Output Transfomer Stage DECWARE PAC-S ZROCK2 EL34 Mono-blocks DECWARE DM947 Monolith's (used) ZMA 25th MODs done last month! On the build sheet: My ZBIT w/Dual Attenuation DECWARE Power Conditioner. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/19/18 at 15:42:23 stone_of_tone wrote on 12/17/18 at 15:08:13:
Larry, this really should be the next Decware t-shirt, right? :) Today I spent a few hours with fresh ears on my system and I went through two different rectifier types and one regulation tube type from my "everyday complement" and came back to what I am using every day. But in the process I found four or five different "amplifiers" especially if you transition between A and B EQ curves in the ZROCK2. Other less flexible amplifiers only give you a limited choice in "signature." The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience is one of exploring these different worlds of sound with different tubes, wires, power settings, toggle switch settings, isolation and damping. . . . There were times in my life when I wanted a system that was rock steady and had the right combination of sonic elements to let me just sit back and listen through my collection. There were times when I almost achieved that goal as well. But the deeper into the Decware world, and especially after you pass through the 25th Anniversary initiation and achieve enlightenment, you find you can and do have the best of choices: you can find and reach the plateau you wish, and yet you know there's a different terrain you could be exploring, and you can head off on another journey with tube-rolling, toggle switching. . . . One gets to have the routine the musical discipline demands, and yet are able to escape the complacency when the audio wanderlust hits you. We Decware owners already bond with our components, 25th Anniversary Modified Experiencers may find obsession with the entire system just around the corner. I think these machines are perfect for those among us who are so deep into this "hobby"--they give us a solid foundation to build our routine around, and yet they are always offering us tantalizing glimpses that tempt us and keep us from complacency. (The above is written somewhat tongue in cheekily . . . .) And there are three or four of you now who are ZMA 25th Anniversary Modified Experiencers now. Please weigh in with your experiences! Thanks! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Archie on 12/19/18 at 16:42:30 Quote:
For me, the 25th Anniversary modifications are finally allowing me to do just this. :) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/19/18 at 16:48:26 Awesome! Me too, and then that complacency comes in, but I get to take another tour and often end up back where I was. I'm facing a new journey ahead as well. I've somehow managed to get permission to move my main system upstairs to be an audio only system, and install a second system downstairs that will be more video-centric. I'd like the system downstairs to be ZTPRE and Torii Mk III centered, but the cabinet my wife insists on won't house them. So it's going to be CSP2+ and Taboo Mk IV centered. Lots of work and fun ahead. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Archie on 12/19/18 at 17:06:43 Do you get any "bass thumping" from the upstairs system? I remember growing, up my brother's stereo in his room just sounded like bass for those downstairs. Obviously, he had no isolation under his speakers though. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 12/19/18 at 17:07:52 Lon...That would make a cool T-Shirt! :) Will do, about getting to my ZMA 25th experience/in some more time... . For the ZMA, Jeff intrigued me this past February with his musing's of offering the ZMA a little more speed. With Steve's discoveries and applying to the ZMA, I'm very pleased/speed & micro serving the macro music! My ZMA is seasoning in nicely.... . I always knew it was not my Adagio's. I had in Tekton's and owned the DM947 Monoliths (all at the same time/rotating and listening with two other pair as well, mind you). They too, could be; not what I knew from my SE84CS delivering the music. For Steve to achieve the ZMA doing (UFO-25th SE) CS with power...is pretty damn remarkable. Back to my Speaker's/Acoustic Zen Adagio's. The Tekton's & DM947's could not even come close to what my Adagio's achieve. The choice to have them cross cut at 4500Hz/single capped, instead of the 2500 tested and 3000 they were at....proved to be remarkable. These are fast woofer's and tweeter's. Now! ...providing the true identity of my ZMA (because of the Mod's) & Steve's great Redbook source/ZDSD! Mr. Lee's interview: Tell me about your woofers. How does an underhung driver differ from a well-hung driver? Underhung means that it has a very short voice coil in a large magnetic field gap. The drivers are top grade and so are the magnets. The voice coils are very narrow and always move in a linear manner within a magnetic field regardless of excursion. Additionally, a traditional long voice coil moving in a short magnetic gap presents a high variable impedance to the amplifier. Can you break it down in some more detail? With a short voice coil in a long magnetic gap, as the music signal flows through the voice coil, the coil and the cone moving together produce the sound wave. A long magnetic gap structure offers a much wider linear magnetic flux density, alternately pushing and pulling the short voice coil back and forth. Since the magnetic force on the coil is constant and completely symmetrical with the motion of the piston assembly, the result is a sound wave with extremely low distortion and coloration, allowing it to respond much faster to a transient signal and to stop faster after the drive signal has ceased. Compare that with the large signal behavior of high-excursion overhung transducers. Because the coil extends beyond the control of the magnetic flux field, it causes very high harmonic and transient distortion that can reach 5 - 20% whereas the underhung driver maxes out at 1%. Because of the very complex magnetic structure and complications involved in voice coil placement and fabrication, the underhung voice coil is difficult and expensive to fabricate. What are the speaker cones made of? They use a ceramic-impregnated fabric in the center with ceramic coating on either side to form a sandwich. These drivers are custom built for Acoustic Zen to my specifications. The ceramic coating makes for a strong, dense, rigid surface area that will not break up nor produce a lot of ringing. The cone is very stiff and light and as a result, very fast. It responds immediately to a signal and returns to its original position very quickly. This minimizes frequency overhang, colorations and distortions. Why a Neodymium magnet? An underhung driver's voice coil requires an extremely strong magnetic field. If you are using traditional magnets, the size and weight of the motor would be excessive. Neodymium allows us to maximize magnetic coverage while controlling weight and size. Why did you choose a ribbon tweeter and how does your circular design differ from other approaches? I don't want to get too technical here. My circular ribbon tweeter design, unlike a traditional dome or cone tweeter, presents a purely resistive impedance that's completely linear in the audio range. It also has an essentially linear phase response, which contributes to an immediate and precise response to any transients in a complicated music signal. This dramatically reduces distortion and coloration. I am using the thinnest diaphragm possible, a 0.01 millimeter Kapton diaphragm. That's just about weightless, with a 95% covered aluminum circle of conductors across the entire vibrating area positioned between super strong Neodymium magnets. Some people use metal ribbons which can result in very harsh HF response. Kapton is not only extremely light, it is also heat resistant, hence the thermal behavior of the voice coil will not translate into audible distortions. My tweeter's larger circular membrane not only provides much higher power handling and a wider frequency response, it also eliminates the offsets between horizontal and vertical dispersion that are common with narrow ribbons. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/19/18 at 17:53:34 No, not really. The systems I've had upstairs have actually provided pretty darned good full spectrum sound downstairs. Which was why it was mainly a headphone system when heavily used. I'll be using the upstairs system with headphones when my wife is around. Which is fine. Intrigued to discover which is the best way to set it up and find the right speaker positions. I don't expect to get quite as good a sound as down on the first floor, but having a wife that is happy not to have to look at my equipment all the time will be a nice thing. Nothing will change for about six weeks as we wait for the credenza/cabinet she wants. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Stefan on 12/22/18 at 05:12:56 Finally got my modified zbit and 25th zrock2, dressed like my 25th amp, look and sound fantastic :) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by lazb on 12/22/18 at 20:09:42 How does Decware let you know about the status of equipment you have sent in for 25th Mods? Any notification at any point or does the modded piece just show up on your doorstep? I am getting anxious re. my ZROCK2! The system still sounds fantastic without it but it is missed for the bit of "tuning" it contributes/allows. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by HockessinKid on 12/23/18 at 00:10:16 No posted list for modifications or repairs. They are normally completed in two weeks and you'll receive a call and/or email from Sarah when shipped. HK |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by lazb on 12/23/18 at 00:50:34 ok, thaanks |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/25/18 at 15:07:27 Man. . . the 25th Anniversary Modified Experience. . . it keeps on being an experience. New firmware for my transport and DAC have led to experimentation, and falling in love with certain tube types has also encouraged experimenting with those. I'm back to Sophia Electric Aqua 274B rectifiers in both of the Monoblocks and in the CSP3-25. There's just something so right about the blend of sound and dynamics from these and an open midrange that is uniquely its own. And I have been so enamored with the Raytheon OD3W that I have that I ordered a few pairs of Chatham OD3W. I have a pair in now and these are a different presentation, much clearer and crisper than the Raytheon but so far only a few hours in. . . . These amps and preamp show me so much of what is in the source material and every other component or accessory in the system. What an experience! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/26/18 at 02:12:57 Stefan,those look great! Is the ZBIT just modified with the wood panels? How does the sound of the ZROCK2 with mods compare to how it sounded before? |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/27/18 at 18:59:23 I've put the ZTPRE back in and gosh I find it hard to choose between it and the CSP3-25 in my main system as the preamp. They each make the system shine and each brings a different flavor that I love. But the ZTPRE allows me to run balanced for three sources, and has remote control. . . . And I don't have to play with rectifiers, the solid state one Steve chose is on the money. So it may be the one that stays. I lose the headphone playback. . . BUT I have the Taboo Mk IV for that, which may even be a better headphone amp. My ZBIT has two single-ended outputs so that allows me to use it to feed both the ZROCK2 (feeding the amps) and the Taboo Mk IV. I both do and don't miss the 25th Anniversary Modified Experience that the CSP3-25 brings to the system. That makes the CSP3-25 just a hair more holographic and detailed than the ZTPRE. But the ZTPRE is so well-mannered and perfectly "right" that its refined character just makes for amazing listening that I miss when it's not there. The great thing for me is that I'll soon be able to use two systems: one downstairs that will be "new" and the main system which is going to have a dedicated loft area upstairs. The "new" system I think will have the Taboo Mk IV, a ZROCK2 (when my new one arrives), the CSP3-25 and my first pair of HR-1s fed by my Oppo UDP-205 and a DVR. Should be a great system on its own. (I may send my Taboo Mk III in for the 25th Anniversary Modifications and use it as my headphone amp in the main system; I have so much stuff, but at least with a full second system I get to use it!) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 12/27/18 at 19:24:16 Lon, That's quite the problem... having so much DecWare Gear that you aren't sure where to use it! :o I'm hoping to have a similar dilemma some day, but it seems it will be far off. Great to hear you are enjoying the change-ups, I am anxious to get my ZROCK2 and then the ZTPRE into my system, the wait is a kind of a conundrum in that the anticipation is something and the patience is something else (that I'm not too good at!). Best, Scott |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/27/18 at 20:06:30 I have over twenty years of waiting for Decware gear that I have ordered. . . and you'd think I was good at it by now. . . . Maybe I'm a little better at it I guess, but there's room for improvement! Waiting for the new fully modded ZROCK2 and the ZLC is hard. I want them now! But hey, good things come to those who wait. . . . You're going to have a great system! ZTPRE and ZROCK2. . . can't help but see a bit improvement with those. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 12/28/18 at 14:21:23 I want my ZBIT and I want it now! ;D :D (in Q 10/6, with another 1.5 months to go/pretty much) Oh, the pain .......the pain, I know guys! We know it is always worth the wait. https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1543979474 |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 12/29/18 at 20:02:46 I am pleased with my ZMA Mod's. A couple weeks in I was skeptical. (I actually posted my premature worry and Lon eloquently posted to season longer and he was right and I should have known better). Ye of little faith here.....Steve knocked it out of the park once again. The last week/10 days.....I am no longer skeptical, to say the least. I put quite the burn seasoning on the Mod's with my ARC Stereo Line Amplifier + tube rolling: 6P's, KT66, 7581A & KT88 output tubes with NOS Platinum Mullard, Ediswan & Tungsram input tubes. A pair of stellar NOS Platinum Telefunken's as my constant inverter pair. Then, taking my Pre out of the chain and running how I prefer my ZMA served (unadulterated by an Preamp); with my room size and acoustic treatment, I really enjoy getting so close to my tube rolling/voicing. NOW?! I get even closer with more musical transparency, tone signature of the ZMA continues spot on in the imaging that I thought could not be improved but has. Little deeper soundstage too. Micro serving the macro, fully. Bottom Line: As if a straight wire with gain preamp is under the hood with these mods of power cap bypass, glass resistor's and tempered/maintaining transparency, by the output screen grid resistor's. Speed & Dynamics? Oh yeah, in full bloom now and Stone is very, very happy. So, I did not like Line Stages before this and in my room I can get away without. With the Mod's, I might as well sell my Line Stage. Weight and all I have mentioned is there! Furthermore, realize I use Steve's output stage/ZDSD, that provides gem voltage output direct to my ZMA too. I look forward to my ZBIT (I need Steve's outboard output stage with left and right channel adjustability (option ordered)/because I'm so pleased with the output stage of my ZDSD). ZLC too coming later. Also, I noticed Steve's friend Dan, up the road from me has an interesting product out! This will be next in my budget for my second System. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Jeff of Arabica on 12/31/18 at 08:41:24 Great to hear Stone! I too found that all of the new components needed some time to burn-in before reaching their full potential. Most profound burn-in requirement for me was the screen grid resistor I added. It was a hefty wire wound resistor that initially suppressed the top end sparkle I was used to hearing from the ZMA. The sonic improvements came rather quickly and after a couple of days it was a different amp. But, all in all I would say it continued to "season" over the following weeks. I think you will find replacing the large electrolytic to be a surprising improvement. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 12/31/18 at 13:53:01 Oh yeah, funny you mention the top end sparkle. It took a little more time than I expected....but it has arrived and not hyperbole to say, wow! My Gold Lion Cryo KT88's are absolutely stunning with my NOS Plat Tungsram 6922's for inputs and NOS Plat Tele's as inverter's. Yes, road trip by appointment to stop by and have Steve pop them in, the big Nich'es....Sue wants to come back up the River through Galena anyway. I could do it (having Steve send them to me when available)...but I want to maintain my warranty. Decware is only 6.25 hours away. Instead of incurring the $180 in round trip shipping again.....it will be better spent on an Airbnb or Bed & Breakfast on the River. +, get to listen to the DNA2's. Sue, might think it strange, that I wheel the Pelican case into the room for overnight. She will understand, I'm not leaving my 6.5k ZMA in the trunk overnight. 8-) :D TIP: ....this reminds me, I need to review my homeowner's insurance for replacement cost of both of my Rig's. :o Good TIP for all here, to start your New Year. Me? I have 27k+ at replacement cost in Audio......... . I know many of you have more than this. Most would argue: "I'm covered at X amount of k for personal property, without a Rider...but are you really and at replacement cost for ALL your Audio?" I'm not an insurance agent hawking for the industry to extract more money from your wallet....this is just good food for thought and consideration for my fellow Decwarian's; since I'm reviewing my policy next month. Yes, I know, fire or home theft is almost akin to being struck by lightening. However, just food for thought. My insurance (by comparison to two others) will not be getting an extra penny out of me; if not need be. ....For starter's, if you have not done so already....have photo's of all your equipment and as many receipts as you can/find, in your phone and in the Cloud. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/31/18 at 17:35:53 This 25th Anniversary Modified Experience is really something. This was a great year for Decware, a stride forward from excellence to out-of-this-wordliness. I'm addicted to my ZTPRE driving the Monoblocks now, I love the consistent sound and how it makes all my sources sound their best without smoothing over or hiding anything. My next dilemma is to decide whether to send my Taboo Mk III or my Taboo Mk IV back for the Anniversary Mods. One or the other will be the heartbeat of my upcoming second system, the other will be the headphone amp for my main system. I guess in time I'll send them both back. . . . |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 12/31/18 at 18:46:28 Very good dilemma to wrestle with Lon. Have a Happy New Year! Having some frigid cold coming in tomorrow here.....will be a great day to stay warm with a lot of Music. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/31/18 at 18:54:44 I know you'll have a great day too, best to you and yours. May all of us have a safe and happy new year and a year well-seasoned by great-sounding music. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Stefan on 12/31/18 at 22:05:54 "Stefan,those look great! Is the ZBIT just modified with the wood panels? How does the sound of the ZROCK2 with mods compare to how it sounded before?" Hi Lon, besides the wood side panels the ZBIT has a switch and 2 additional inputs, so I have my DAC on there via XLR and then my record player and surround sound amp via the 2 RCAs. All the RCAs are the upgraded ones from the 25th amp. This is one of the amazing things that I love about Decware, you can talk to the owner about special one-off things and you get them for a very reasonable price. The ZROCK25th makes it sound so much "fuller", the bass goes down more and makes the whole "2.5 Watt" experience even more mind blowing, given that my Tannoy speakers are not super high efficient. Very happy with the setup and sound now, and that before I have even started any tube rolling ;D The only thing I need to figure out is that the ZROCK has a slight hum coming from the box, when you squeeze a bit the top of the box it goes away, need to ask if anyone else had that in the ZROCK forum. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/31/18 at 22:28:40 Thanks for the update. Wow, sounds like a great new setup. I have a lot to look forward to when my ZROCK2 is built and shipped. And nice having the ZBIT as a transformer and a source selector. Regarding the hum. . . when I first got my ZROCK2 it too had a hum. In my case it turned out to be cable placement related. I reconnected all the connections carefully paying attention to routing away from power cables and the hum went away. . . . |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 01/07/19 at 17:53:19 I swear that week by week the sound improves, due to both the seasoning of the equipment and my learning the best tubes to use and the best gain settings in the system. I'm so SOLD on the 25th Anniversary Modified Experience! Reinstalling the ZTPRE has been really good for my system. It's nice to have the Z Amigos back in play, and its anchoring consistency truly gives the system a coherent balance that I don't want to be without. Next month sometime the cabinet Lucy ordered should arrive and I'll be able to set up a new system, and that too should be a 25th Anniversary Mod one as I intend to use the CSP3 with 25th Anniversary Mods, and I intend to send my Taboo Mk IV back to the Mothership for upgrading with the 25th Anniversary Mods. And I hope to have a ZROCK2 in this system too, though that may not happen at first--there are about 40 orders ahead of my new ZROCK2 on the build list! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 01/16/19 at 15:36:10 I can't help it. I want to just kick back and enjoy the music without futzing, but the transparency and dynamics of these amplifiers keep making me explore. A certain recording will suddenly show me an "avenue" to venture down and off I go. I'm back to 5R4GWB rectifiers, these labeled Raytheon, which have a slightly richer texture and are a shade less bright than the Chathams I have, and I tried OD3W from Raytheon, Sylvania and Chatham and the Raytheon have a great synergy with these rectifiers. After some "gain" adjustments and time lit up I was very happy but there was just a hint of classic tube warmth that I was missing and it dawned on me to trade a Mullard 12AU7 for the Amperex 12AU7 that I have had in the ZROCK2 for quite some time. That did the trick, I'm getting a very dynamic and open sound--well seems I always have that but there's a hint more dynamic detail and the soundstage opened up a hair and moved back a hair. The Mullard does not quite provide the gain that the Amperex does, had to do some gain adjustments, but I'm now going to try to just leave things be! (Yeah right). My pleasure lasted a brief instant. I was staring at the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B and remembering what I paid for them, and how excellent they are. . . I popped them back in, and started playing about with the regulator and ZROCK2 tubes. . . and ended up where I started! But knowing there's yet another possible combo available. This is the first time that I think I understand what Steve was saying that the ZROCK2 without mods would be the weakest link if you have the modded amps (and I think he also meant preamp). I am not using the 25th Anniversary CSP3 right now, but the ZTPRE is so clear and clean and copacetic that I know it's not my weakest link. I'm eager to have my 25th Anniversary modded ZROCK2 built and in the system. I think there's a thin veil that can be rolled away when this happens. . . . Every day I just marvel at the sound I have in my home. We're blessed. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by lazb on 01/16/19 at 17:23:06 Yes, blessed! It is extremely difficult to turn the system off even when it is past time to go to bed. :-/ |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lonely Raven on 01/17/19 at 15:11:00 LOL, me too. Lately I've been like the kid playing a video game...But Mom, just 5 more minutes! Just one more song...just one more...just. Oh crap it's 2am and I need to be up for work in 4 hours! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 01/17/19 at 17:29:56 Normally I’d be entering a guilty plea here also, but my bedtime has gotten a little more reasonable while waiting on 25th Mods to the MKIV and my ZTPRE to hit the bench. I considering the break “resting up” because when that stuff is into my system I plan on either turning my clocks around or taping over them while everything gets settled in...let’s see 24x7 for a couple weeks should give me a jump on things. :o |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 01/19/19 at 16:00:58 Had a serious Oh sh__! .....moment(s) last night and then had to duplicate to make sure I was not wrong (this morning)! Prince's Piano & A Microphone, in its entirety last night was so real and palpable with these mod's and just better! Next, I have waited for the Mod's to season in to play this one. Bruce Hornsby's Big Swing Face. This disc is just a plain disaster with mid-fi, because of its busy density (and my mid-fi Rig does not suck). ZMA with MOD's?! .....Totally engrossing with dynamic range so stunning ....I was pinching myself. We are blessed to have this level of enjoyment. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 01/19/19 at 16:11:12 Those "Oh" moments keep on coming. You're right, we're blessed. My next leap will be when the 25th Modded ZROCK2 arrives! And I want to see what the ZLC will bring, though I am unsure it will unsettle or upstage my P10. It's the weekend and I don't get to listen much, and a 3 day weekend at that. Come on Tuesday! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 01/19/19 at 16:54:52 Yes, I look forward to the ZLC in March (estimated delivery~where I sit in the que). Till then, with these Mod's continuing to season and the ZBIT needing its time......all good. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 01/20/19 at 19:57:04 Oh my, my, my.....time my ARC Stereo Line Amplifier was injected. Tung n' Groove. Litmus Test: The Southern and Harmony Musical Companion. PASSED!!!! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by stone_of_tone on 01/20/19 at 20:16:32 Meaning: Classic Chris Robinson light it up ....the Mod's improved this too! Got to have a good vintage Class A Pre for all Rock. Jazz ....still get the closest Direct; that has made a leap too, with the Mod's. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/04/19 at 22:28:47 Three new 25th Anniversary Modified Experience related things. One: the Taboo Mk IV is in the house with the Mods and it is as transformed as I thought it would be. Great sounding amp taken to the next level! I had about 20 hours on it and took it out to compare to the 25th Anniversary Monoblocks more directly with some hours on the Taboo. It's very similar in nature, being a bit more powerful and dynamic, and a bit less refined. Two: While they were out I popped the tops of the Monoblocks and rolled out the Raytheon NOS OC2 voltage regulator tubes underneath with Tesla NOS 11TA31 tubes, an OA2 type. I LOVED these in my Toriis and I love them in the Monoblocks, they just contribute to the exceptional openness that these amps give with the other tubes in my complement, and I'm so glad to have them in there. I have another pair stored away and just ordered four more. I don't want to be without these! That highlighted one advantage the Monoblocks have to the Taboo: the voltage regulation tubes. My PS Audio P10 really improves the sound of both of these components, but the voltage regulation tubes allows me to tailor the sounds about another 15 percent or so, a surprisingly useful factor and one that I really enjoy playing about with. I'll put the Taboo back in soon to get some more hours on it before it serves as the heartbeat of the new system I'll soon be setting up. Three: I sent my remaining CSP2+ back to Decware today for the beeswax 25th Anniversary Mods. These mods are the REAL DEAL. I intend to use it wit the Taboo Mk IV in the upcoming system. . . . I was going to put my CSP3-25 in that system with the Taboo, but I just don't want to be without it in my main system as both a preamp and a headphone amp. Having both the ZTPRE and the CSP3-25 in my main system is an unexpected joy and both in use are just a tiny bit better than either in use by themselves, and I just won't deny myself that last bit of great sound. I think in time I'll send my Taboo Mk III in for the mods as well, the mods really are worth the effort and dollars. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Steve Deckert on 02/06/19 at 02:23:19 Lon, referring to your enjoyment of the ZPTRE and CSP3 in the same signal path... and as you mentioned, you would think it wouldn't sound as good since introducing more components and cables in the signal path generally wrecks it,... but it does : ). It's like each tube stage is channeling the true intent of the recording through magical interpretation and it's cumulative. Those who just tuned-in, when you look at a tube stage, specifically a triode which is what we are using, the tube itself has only three elements. A high voltage plate, which is large with lots of surface area... a small heated cathode centered inside the plate emitting electrons once it gets hot, and a fine wire screen grid between the two that carries a small electrical charge - the signal - causing the electron flow between the cathode and the plate to very with the music. This means that the signal entering the tube is only operating a "shutter" that modulates the flow of electrons between the cathode and plate of the tube just a a window shutter can modulate the amount of light that enters a room. If the signal is only operating the "shutter", then the electrons you "hear" are actually coming from the cathode and being collected on the plate and on to the next stage where the process repeats itself. Each time this process repeats itself it can either preserve, repair or diminish the fidelity of the original signal that started the domino-effect through the amplifier's various stages. In this case as Lon describes, it does the best of the three, it repairs. Repairing outranks preserving. Someone might wonder why they never read about this stuff anywhere else, and it's because the subject is reserved for only those audio products which are designed around transparency, like the whole Decware line as an example ; ) Getting back to the "shutter" analogy, the Anniversary mods are about matching the signal capacitor feeding each stage with a plate-bypass capacitor of the exact same type. In this case we use rather pricey cyro-treated beeswax caps from Jupiter Condenser, that go for between $40 and $90 for each cap. To put that in perspective the original Zen Triode Amplifiers used a very sought after green chicklet-sized polyester film cap that cost 18 cents each in 1991. So you can image how expensive it is to put one of these new beeswax caps on the plate of each stage but this is the only way you can be sure the speed and characteristics of the signal cap and the plate cap exactly match each other and therefor reproduce the signal through the stage with great resolution. Additionally, these have to be backed up by even larger values which more than doubles the price for each stage. The reason for this is because the main filter caps in high voltage tube amps from Decware are large 47uf 500V German F&T electrolytic caps. High frequencies require faster access to pluses of power from the cap. Smaller value caps are faster than larger value caps. Getting cap values that compliment the bass, the midrange and the treble is what makes everything magical. So we take the 47uf which are then bypassed down with a large film cap, usually around 3.3uf, and then either a .47 beeswax film cap, or a .33 high voltage film cap, followed by the .1uf that matches the signal cap. In some cases the speed is further enhanced by using a .022 beeswax cap, like in the headphone section of the CSP325 as an example. Besides resolution, focus, dynamics and a haunting realness to the music, you will find the item just has more nuts. A lot more. Again bit's and pieces of this are no doubt scattered throughout this thread, but for those who don't like to read or can't remember, I thought I would summarize it agin hear since it is responsible for breaking the long held audio rule that a shorter signal path always sounds better... ; ) Steve |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/06/19 at 11:00:42 Thanks for the concise explanation Steve. It truly is a blessing to have both these preamps working in one system. And these mods are excellent. I have them in the Taboo Mk IV now, have a ZROCK2 with the mods on order, and Monday sent my CSP2+ in for modification. In time I'll send my Taboo Mk III in as well. The wonderful improvements are a big benefit to any system. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 02/06/19 at 15:43:13 Steve, Thanks from me also. I've read probably a hundred hours or more trying to learn more and comprehend how this all works and fits together. You brought it to me in what less than what, 700 words? I can't honestly say I have any understanding of how those electrons actually work, but then I struggle with Hot/Neutral/Ground in my breaker box. I got a "feel" for Mod and Cap stuff so I'm going to be content with that for now. I can't wait to start burning in the MKIV mods with the new ZTPRE and ZRock2 25th. I have no doubt the next few months and beyond will hold some great listening for me. It's amazing that the whole family of DecWare equipment that is already out there can be converted into totally new models basically by simply having them updated and modded. All new gear without the financial strain of selling an old and buying "new". Pretty cool, allowing people to purchase any of it without and have a clear path forward with the same stuff! OK, done, just a satisfied customer rattling on... :) Best, Scott |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Steve Deckert on 02/07/19 at 04:16:13 It's OK Scott, keep rattling... ; ) BTW, Interesting tidbit about your amp and the art of trouble-shooting mysterious problems: I got your TORII MK4 that I just did anniversary mods on back with the dead channel, and had two extreme mind-melting hours trying to figure out the impossible... After doing the 25th Anniversary Mods and testing the amp all the way through, which is my preferred methodology, I got down to the final mod, the glass resistors. So simple, just remove existing resistor and replace with new one, do it 6 times. I finished one channel and tested it, and then finished the other channel and "thought I tested it" but actually didn't. So based on the certainly aka assumption that I had tested that final resistor, I was unable to find why the hell the amplifier did not work on one channel. It worked, but the output was so low it was almost undetectable. Every part in the amplifier tested perfect, all resistors, all capacitors, and on the scope, the input stage all the way up to the output tubes was working perfectly, but the output tubes were not passing the signal on to the output transformer... yet, the tubes were clearly working, in fact they were drawing 50% more power than they should have, which is also btw impossible. Output transformer tests perfect, yet just to be sure that what tests perfect actually is perfect, a new one is swapped in and no change... Based on everything I tested, and everything I think I know, what is happening is completely impossible, and really starting to piss me off... Then I remembered, troubleshooting anything, no matter how complicated, is not you pitted against the faltering item, but rather you pitted against your own mind. It is nothing else but that. The actual problem with anything is always something simple, or if Father Murphy wants to really punish you it will be three very simple things all at once. My mind was operating under a false pretense which was that I personally tested and witnessed both channels working perfectly after doing the all of the Anniversary mods on this amp. So now that you have all the pieces to this puzzle, can you figure out what was wrong with the amp? How can a channel that is not oscillating and has no output yet is drawing 50% more power causing 31 volts to disappear not working properly when all the parts are there, and test perfectly? One of the parts was soldered to the wrong place. Pin 6 instead of pin 5. Yes, it's a good one... one of Father Murphy's favorites... (He is such an asshole I can't even believe it. Did you know Father Murphy has a hidden camera to record his pranks and they play this shit back in the heavens like the show that used to be called "Candid Camera" ? Well it's true. Then they make you watch it during a life review after you die, just to have another good laugh! Anyway, as far as I know it's a first for me, a sign of getting older I guess, nevertheless I did what I could to make it right, which was to fix it the day it came in, and cover the shipping both ways since it was my mistake ; ) BTW, Your very pretty ZTPRE came out great, as they all do, but I took an extra day to enjoy yours in the listening room so it has around 55 hours on it and is sure to please : ) -Steve P.S. When I say "it was a first for me" I do not mean my first mistake!!! I have repaired mistakes and paid shipping both ways enough times over 20 years to easily pay cash for a nice new home, but as you can see the karma that came from it is worth far more than the money that would have been saved by skirting the responsibility : ) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 02/07/19 at 05:25:30 Steve, First off, Thank You I was blown away yesterday when I called Sarah about another matter (her doing me a favor) she knew the amp had just come in and you were going to get to me about it, she went to check with you and came back and said you had both hands in there was working on it. My response was...no problem don’t bother him. I first off had this feeling, it’s going to be working just fine when you get it, even though we spent all that time on the phone trying to pinpoint something. Don't forget, it also came in for the 25th mods with my original problem of blown fuses because of a bad rectifier tube! I agree with your assessment on Father Murphy, with me they have a Double Feature already in the can and are working on a sequel. I would challenge anyone to find a vendor that offers the kind of service and assistance that you do. It amazes me to think that it has been only 9 months since we had our first discussion on the phone and I ordered the Torii MKIV and then the ZBIT. What a great experience and it's only just beginning for me. I remember hanging up the phone not 100% sure what the heck I was getting into, not knowing how lucky I was to have ended up in the hands of someone who actually gives a shit (you) and how different it may have come out had the folks at ZU not recommended I look into DecWare! I now will be punching UPS tracking on the MKIV and the ZTPRE which apparently is waiting for the big brown truck. Thanks Again. Best, Scott |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 02/11/19 at 20:46:03 I'd call it a Great Day when UPS delivers my fully modded Torii MKIV and then I get a email "your ZTPRE has been shipped!" it's going to be an experience... the first time with the modded ZROCK2 and MKIV together. [smiley=10.gif] Good Listening, Scott |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/11/19 at 21:32:20 Great Day INDEED! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by HockessinKid on 02/11/19 at 21:36:45 Scott, Wow, sounds like your going to have some great listening in a few days. Have fun and try to get some sleep 😊. HK |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/12/19 at 17:45:17 I'm breaking in some new fuses and this has led to more tube-rolling. I have had Audio Magic Super fuses in my ZTPRE and ZROCK2 for some time and I decided to complete the complement by adding them to my CSP3-25 and SE84UFO3 25th Anniversary Monoblocks. (Furutech fuses resided there beforehand). These fuses take about 100 hours to be all they can be and I'm about halfway through and they're stabilizing. They make a very very black background and heighten all the spatial aspects of the sound and the frequency balance shifts as they burn in. So I shouldn't roll tubes while they do so, but I do because it helps me get a handle on how they are influencing the components. I have been playing around with a tube type Johnny suggested to me, 6N6P, and have a matched pair I've been using in the Monoblocks and the CSP3-25. Very nice tubes, but ultimately at least so far they fall behind the Amperex 7308s I've been using especially with the recorded sound of piano--the Amperex have a more complex, natural playback. And searching in my boxes of tubes I found a trio of Valvo E288CC tubes I used to use in my CSP2+ and popped those into the CSP3-25. This is a great fit. With Amperex 7308 in the Monoblocks--the resulting sound has focus and a very natural sound and is perhaps the most "holographic" that the amps have delivered (that's the fuses at work). You just can't get bored with the 25th Anniversary Experience just a flick of a few switches away. You can roll tubes and tailor til you drop. Fascinating components. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by HockessinKid on 02/12/19 at 17:56:14 What size and type of fuses are you using in the CSP3-25 preamp? I believe most companies offer long and short versions, as well as fast and slow blow fuses. 5 amp? Thanks. HK |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/12/19 at 17:58:10 You can only use the short ones. 3 amp as outlined in the manual. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by HockessinKid on 02/12/19 at 18:02:25 Thanks Lon. Slow blow or fast? HK |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/12/19 at 18:12:31 You can use either I believe. I have always used slow. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/12/19 at 22:25:32 Well, my ZROCK2 with all Anniversary mods is on the bench. Happy! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by lazb on 02/12/19 at 22:59:41 :D yeeee haaa!!!! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 02/12/19 at 23:17:56 I honestly can’t imagine not having it in my system. I got to bed at least a couple hours before dawn last night. I gave the MKIV & ZROCK2 mods a run for their money... They won [smiley=10.gif] The first hundred hours or so will come quickly. Best, Scott |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Joey on 02/12/19 at 23:22:11 I just "upgraded" my order from SE84UFO2 to the 25th with Zrock 2 plus mods. I hope to have it by Friday!! ;D :o :: :D. LOL. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/13/19 at 00:56:21 And my ZLC is also on the bench. And maybe soon they'll work on the CSP2+ I sent in for the Anniversary mods. Expensive, but a lot of good stuff. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Delta 77 on 02/13/19 at 03:03:17 CSP3 in house after RCA repair, of coarse had the 25th anniversary mod done while in the repair shop.. I’ve had 3 - 4 days with it so far (approx 35 hours).. First impressions, 1st) The Sound stage changed, ..? Yea I know, I wasn’t expecting that.. With my ZMF headphones, the sound stage had a kind of “rainbow effect” to it , putting the singer/ center stage 2” above my head and the far right and left channels would wrap around to my ears.. NOW the singer/ center stage is inside my head , making a more Flat / even stage from ear to ear..!! On the main speakers, Very similarly, the sound stage center had moved .. I would estimate that center image had moved approximately 3” - 6” downward from where it used to project from before ..!! This in turn makes placement and separation of instruments more realistic and satisfying to me.. 2nd) Most noticeable aspect to me is , The smallest details are more prominent, making the volume level between all of the frequency’s more even across the board.. Happy Camper over here.. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/13/19 at 11:43:24 Great news Delta! I have a CSP3 that I had built with the Anniversary mods and really love it. The detail element is truly engaging. . . a tapestry of sound is woven around the listener in the system now. I am looking forward to how the mods transform the CSP2+ that I sent in. . . . |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lonely Raven on 02/13/19 at 18:49:42 You guys are giving me gear envy....ugh. Congrats on all the new gear and mods! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 02/13/19 at 23:00:12 Joey, You won’t regret the change to the UFO-25 and the ZR-2 with the mods. Mine was one of the first UFO-25’s, I think the second. I had the SE84UFO2 and as good as that amp is the UFO-25 is in a different league. I just hooked up my ZR-2 after both the mods were done and even though I was expecting nothing less than being amazed after experiencing the UFO-25 and the ZR-2 without the mods, I was not ready for the difference the mods made on the ZR-2. Good choices! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Joey on 02/14/19 at 02:37:10 Thanks JOMAN, I'm second or third from the bottom of the Q so I got a while to go. I sent my UFO2 in for mods to help with the wait. I knew it was now or never for the 25th and life is too short to always be wondering "what if?". I think once the wife gets a taste, she will understand. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JOMAN on 02/15/19 at 03:25:33 Joey my wife has been putting up with this hobby of mine for 44years. Now she asks me to play music and won’t let any of our social get togethers go by without insisting on music being played. The way she describes what she hears and feels you’d think she’s an audiophile and I insist on getting her input. She too has become a Decware fan. So you never know.... Cheers |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by AlexR on 02/16/19 at 22:36:00 Hi all, I'm wondering how close to the full 25th anniversary experience I'll get with just the caps bypass mod. If I send in my Zen for the caps bypass, will it get me close to the 25th, or is most of the magic in the voltage regulation tubes? I'm really attached to my SE84UFO2! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/16/19 at 22:44:54 I don't know if anyone here besides Steve would have specific experience. . . but I sent my Taboo Mk IV in for the power supply mods and it came back and the transformed amp sounds very similar to the 25th Anniversary Monoblocks I have that also have the regulation tube mods. I have a PS Audio P10 power regenerator, so power is pretty well cleaned up and modulated for me, but I would surmise from my experience that the power supply mod would get you a very good way towards the full monty. Being able to roll different regulation tubes is a very nice thing that you will be missing though. That leads to awesome fine tuning. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Joey on 02/16/19 at 23:02:39 I should be able to know how the UFO2 compares to the 25th in about 5-6 months. I'm sure burn in time will also be a factor to consider. I will definitely keep both as I have three Decware rooms not including HT. I watch very little TV now and most likely, less , once the 25th and ZR2 arrive. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/19/19 at 19:02:37 Just a day away or so of moving my system upstairs and I have stuck my 25th Anniversary Modded Taboo Mk IV in place of the 25th Anniversary Modded SE84UFO3 amps. WOW. I've about 150 hours on these amps since the mods and about 110 hours on a new Audio Magic Super fuse and the sound is excellent. So so very close to the Monoblocks. A bit more romantic sounding. Love this amp! And the Mods made a big difference in a positive direction. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/22/19 at 19:20:33 Wow moment today. Wednesday (as a surprise anniversary gift for my wife!) I moved my system from the living-room to the upstairs (one long rectangular loft-like area.) I took me a full work day to tear down both the Samson racks and reinstall them upstairs and set up the "second" system in the living room and didn't really have a chance to listen at all on Wednesday after Lucy came home. (She's very happy she doesn't have to look at my system--she really digs the sound but hates seeing my components). Thursday was spent with my Dad with Medical appointments and errands and a few meals. A great time, but no great amount of time for listening. I checked and it sounded good, I was relieved, but I knew the digital components needed a bit more time on and didn't draw conclusive judgments. Today I sat down with the system in the new location and was immediately RELIEVED to hear it sound so good. And it really does. I can even more clearly hear the wonders of the 25th Anniversary mods. I have just the ZTPRE and am using the CSP3-25 in the living-room system, and it's not missed. I can hear even more subtle musical details that increase the real sense of the recorded space and delineate the character of the instruments in well-recorded material. A clarity that is not etched or grainy or "too much." There were two important changes in the setup: I moved back to my Mapleshade Double Helix Plus speaker cables, and I placed the HR-1s on PS Audio PowerBases for isolation purposes. These two changes are certainly making an impact, and overall the system is shining. I am able to get 10 feet from the speakers so I don't feel claustrophobically "near-field" as I have in the past, and the sound has room to bloom. Very relieved, quite happy. Downstairs I have PS Audio Power Plant Premier, Oppo UDP-205, Sony Bravia TV, DVR, CSP3-25 and Taboo Mk IV with 25th Anniversary mods on a maple coffee table until the credenza that Lucy wants arrives Sunday and then I'll put the system together on that. I'm using my original pair of HR-1s and the second best cabling that I have on hand. The sound is quite good. The adjustable Lucid Mode in the Taboo are helping sculpt the sound. Duelund resistors are still breaking in on the HR-1s and I would love to have a ZROCK2 in the mix, and will when the one that is "Testing" at Decware ships and arrives. I am glad I was able to make my wife happy by moving my system, and not step down in audio quality in my main system. (I hope she's even happier when the credenza is installed, it's a sort of shabby chic aqua painted monstrosity that she thinks is "super cool". . . I think she'll really dig the new situation in the living room). |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by lazb on 02/22/19 at 20:29:38 Sounds all good, Lon! Now that the "big" system is in a less conspicuous space, maybe you can do a bit of sound treatment in the room? L R(Eric) might have advice?! Vicoustic has some reasonably priced treatments too. Paul McGowan recommends the Wavewood panels. Just a thought. Wish I had the option. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/22/19 at 23:51:52 Nah Joe, I don't have any real space here for room treatment and I don't think I'll get permission if I could. On one side there's not much space, as there is a door to a closet and a door to the bathroom, and on the other wall there's a long narrow window on the top third. The HR-1s have their own sort of room interaction and always save my bacon in any location they are in. . . so I'll be more than okay with the situation I have and will be able to tweak the system by other means into great sound as time goes by. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Steve Deckert on 02/23/19 at 01:16:37 Is there ever a point where a stereo can sound too real? To find out, read about the TORII MK4 with Anniversary Mods that I am just running in: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1550883971/0#0 Steve |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 06/05/19 at 14:09:41 Gosh three plus months later my main system has been dialed in and tweaked and with the modded ZROCK2 finally settled in I'm getting great sound. Really I have a multiple of systems because tube-rolling in this system really gives one so many aural options it can be unnerving. I built the character of the system around Amperex 7308 in the ZTPRE and Tung-Sol OD3W in the voltage regulator spot for the output tubes in the 25 th Anniversary SE84UFO3 Monoblocks. This week I experimented with all sorts of rectifiers in the Monoblocks and kept feeling that the Sophia Electric 274B are head and shoulders above a dozen other possibilities in my stash (making me wonder why I have all those!) and I've started to experiment with other tube complements. I'm leaving the Sophias and the Amperex 7308s as anchors in the Monoblocks as well as the Tesla OA2 variant I have as regulation for the input tubes. I have found a very good sound with the red-tipped sextet of 6N5P that I have from Steve (such neutral and balanced tubes) and a pair of Sylvania OB3 that add a lot of texture to the sound. Compared to the Amperex 7308 in the ZTPRE these 6N5P sound just a bit flat with the OD3W or OD3 voltage regulation tubes, but the OB3 ameliorate that and give the sound a burnished luster that works very well with less than stellar digital. This 25th Anniversary Experience is an addictive one. One gets immersed in the music, and when one feels the need to tinker or tailor there is so much clarity and such a precise presentation that tube types and brands show themselves vividly making decisions educated and hard to argue with. Here a year later I'm so glad that I jumped onto this fast moving Anniversary train! These components make me feel as if I stole a golden apple from a divine orchard. . . . |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Steve Deckert on 06/05/19 at 16:40:46 Quote:
Might just be the best one-liner I've ever read! Steve |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 06/07/19 at 19:55:07 "Father Knows Best." That's what I keep thinking today because I had an urge to roll the input tubes on my SE84UFO3-25 Monoblocks and put in a pair of red-tipped 6N5P from Decware. Boom. Great sound! Days ago I had taken the Amperex 7308 out of the ZTPRE and put in a six pack of these same Decware selected and tested 6N5P, and really enjoyed that change. And now I'm enjoying this one. Rather than the tightly focused sound of the Amperex, these give a looser, resonant sound to the music. The Amperex hint of warmth is replaced with a softer edge to the notes. I'm really liking it. I'm leaving them in. I may have to find a chapter of AA to frequent. (Amperex-addicts Anonymous). These amps are so reactive and interactive that it's like having dozens of amps, many yet to be discovered. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/25/19 at 15:37:53 Well, I see I left the 6N5P in the ZTPRE for over a month and a half, and in the Monoblocks over a month. . . . And I really like this combination. And then I started playing with particular 6N6P (out of six pair I have one pair is both different in construction and decidedly superior in sound, so I was using that pair) and playing around with voltage regulation tubes to get them their best. Then yesterday I picked a pair of Amperex 7308 out of a box and memories flooded back of wonderful sound so I put Amperex 7308 in the ZTPRE and the Monoblocks. . . and the sound was very close to the 6N6P complement sound but with a tighter focus and a bit more dynamics. After being so used to the wonderful but of looseness that the 6N6P gives I found I was restless. I started rolling voltage regulator tubes and found a particular pair of RCA 0A3 that really helped get me that little bit of ease. A very nice sound. Left that in place most of the day. Then at the close of the day yesterday I realized that since the ZROCK2 was seasoned I really haven't rolled its tube. . . and my gaze landed on a 6085 I had sitting on the rack. . . and put that in in place of the RCA 5814A black plate I had there. At first of course it needed warming up, but unlike in the original ZROCK2 (not modded) it had a mellowness that I liked. So I let it simmer overnight and this morning I played around with the gain between ZTPRE (lowering) and ZBOX (raising) and BAM, a great dynamic sound with razor sharp imaging and yet a nice relaxed soundstage with ambiance and that touch of ease I had been looking for. I make no promises I'll keep this complement in place, but it sure is nice sounding at the moment and yet another "amplifier" to find in the 25th Anniversary Experience. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/12/19 at 01:08:48 The 25th Anniversary Experience can be like having a transporter that takes you to different dimensions. You can hear so deeply and intensely into every nook and cranny of the sound that any tube change, cable change, etc. is another dimension to travel and map out. I have settled into great tube complements (7308 in the ZTPRE, 6DJ8 Bugle Boy, Aqua 274B, stock output tubes, RCA 0B3 in the Monoblocks, RCA black plate 5814A in the ZROCK2). I'm just going to leave them be for now, though I have an Amperex 5814A in the mail I'll try out. So I have turned my attention to isolation and "tuning" the isolation and removing Herbie's Audio Lab tube dampers and installing a fantastic myrtle wood platform I found about 7 years ago on eBay as a tuning weight atop my ZROCK2 has made a radical change in the sound. I can bypass my treble cut circuit for the first time and can use the "Multiwave" on my P10 which is not often the case. Getting incredible sound with all the material I was able to spin today. I'm challenging myself to leave things alone and just deeply enjoy this 25th Anniversary Experience! My next dilemma is whether to send the ZTPRE in for its Anniversary mod. I love the sound of this preamp so much as it is and have built the sound of the system around it and am reticent to change. At the moment my CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods is in for repair and when it returns I can swap in my CSP3 with the Anniversary mods and send the ZTPRE back . . . if I dare. I'm still divided! This experience is so . . . challenging. . . I would like to relax into it for a while. . . but the system invites exploring! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Steve Deckert on 09/11/19 at 05:06:53 I just want to update everyone on the Anniversary mods available for most of our tube gear... I have done hundreds of anniversary mods so far and it has come to the point where I am having to train my staff to build them that way from the start because there just aren't enough hours in the day to QC the amps when each one that comes into QC has to be anniversary modded, adding another hour or two to the process. Don't worry, we'll cope with it just fine, more importantly is that our salesmen, the amplifiers, are now going to be on another level. This will amplify sales in the coming years because it just widens the gap between mass-produced and or high-power audio gear so far that it becomes impossible to ignore or deny. Life is good when sound is good and sound is good when life is good... it's a resonance. Steve |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 03/06/20 at 15:11:47 That's absolutely true Steve, I'm really enjoying that "resonance." Did a lot of component swapping the last few days, and tube-rolling. My Taboo Mk IV with the Anniversary Mods developed an issue and is going back to the mother ship, and in shiftings things around I ended up adding my CSP3 with the Anniversary Mods into the main system so that now the chain is DMP or Rega/GCPH to DSD to ZTPRE to ZBIT to ZROCK2 with Anniversary Mods to CSP3 with Anniversary Mods to SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with Anniversary Mods. Adding this CSP3 adds just a bit more of the Anniversary Mod "magic." It's not worth the hefty price tag just for that little added magic to be honest, BUT it does also give me the very best headphone sound that I have in the house. . . the CSP3 with the Anniversary Mods is the very best headphone amp I have ever heard. The Taboo Mk III I have and the Taboo Mk IV with the Anniversary Mods are both excellent headphone amps, but . . . the CSP3 with the Anniversary Mods (which Steve wired to bypass the input adjustment with a glass resistor) is just a step above. Holographic head experience! The main system is now really singing! And I'm down my bedroom listening station til my Taboo Mk IV comes back, which is okay. . . I use that one the least, though I just really dialed it in with new transport and DAC. . . . |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 03/14/20 at 18:21:41 I've settled on tube complements in the components of my main system and am vowing to not budge for a spell. ZTPRE: all Steve tested and matched 6N5P ZROCK2: an Amperex branded Hewlett Packard 12AU7 CSP3 with 25th Anniversary mods: a pair of supercryo'd 6N1P from cryoset.com (miss them) and as the input a Steve tested 6N5P, Sophia Electric 274B Aqua SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with 25th Anniversary mods: Tesla 0A2, Amperex 0A3, Amperex 5R4WGB, Steve's tested and matched 6P15-EV, Steve's tested and matched 6N5P I'm getting fantastic full-bodied dynamic sound. Loving every hour in front of this system. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by pursuitofnow on 03/15/20 at 18:34:41 Nice, Lon. Maybe I missed it, but I see you're now using Amperex 5R4WGB. How would say they compare to the Sophia's? I've read that the 5R4WGB drop the B+ and have more sag. Has that been your experience? |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 03/15/20 at 18:53:53 I don't know about the sag. The reality is that I can have a number of different "charactered" amps with different tube complements. With the Sophias and certain 0B3 rectifiers I can get a very similar sound to these BIG rugged 5R4 and certain 0A3. I think that comparing these two different complements the 5R4 have just a bit more clarity and dynamics, the Sophia a bit more "3 dimensional" feeling. In my current room situation the former is winning out with most of my musical content listening. Since I've added the CSP3 with the Mods to the system using a Sophia there restores a touch of the 3D feeling and presents a really good synergy to the system overall. I'm really digging the sound and have resisted the urge to roll tubes longer than usual, which is also a good thing. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by pursuitofnow on 03/15/20 at 22:04:07 Thanks for sharing, Lon. Sounds like you're all set for great listening sessions. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 03/19/20 at 16:00:49 Yes I am. . . and I have really been enjoying the listening. One more change: I found I had two more of Steve's 6N5P on hand and these replaced the 2 super-cryo'd 6N1P in my CSP3 with the mods. A slight, very slight dynamic diminishment, but a deeper dollop of "refinement"--killer sound with these tubes. I think I'm done though soon it will be time to order a new pair of output tubes from the Maestro. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by bokat57 on 03/19/20 at 17:02:59 Hi Lon In your Monoblocks, How would you compare the 6n5p tubes with an Amperex (US) 7308 ? Thanks Bob |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 03/19/20 at 17:43:41 I would say the biggest difference is the treble response. The Amperex has a tarter, perhaps more precise treble. The 6N5P seem a tad warmer because the treble is a bit softer. The midrange on the Amperex is also a tad more open, which allows a bit more detail, just a sliver. Depends on the recording how audible this difference is. Wth the 7308 I find myself gravitating twoards best sounding recordings, because they shine brightly, and not reaching for lesser recordings as often. I'm pretty against this as a practice--with the 6N5P everything else sounds a bit better and I don't consider sound quality so much when I think of playing a disc. I tend to relax into the music and not think of sonic attributes more with a full complement of 6N5P. A less audiophile experience. Which I count as a good thing. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by piezoman on 03/19/20 at 18:31:38 Lon, you are a true gentleman and a gem. A real credit to the land of audiophile nirvana. I'll add that the ferm "invaluable" is an understatement. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by bokat57 on 03/19/20 at 19:17:33 Well Stated Lon I understand your comparison. Thank You Bob |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 03/19/20 at 20:20:22 Not sure I can live up t o all that, but thanks B. I've learned so much from Steve, his components, and all the other discoverers of his work and works. It's an evolving sonic universe . . . the first Zen Amps and the latest Anniversary are windows that look into the musical vistas recorded. Of course some windows are wavy old glass and some are triple insulated and fancily-dressed, but man the view! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kingrex on 03/28/20 at 16:06:14 Whats your guys take on a stereo 25 compared to monoblocks. Is any sonic bliss lost when the stereo amp is run in mono. Thanks |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Alex on 04/12/20 at 17:02:13 I’ll soon be getting the 25th Anniversary amp. I’ll probably have to purchase used as I don’t want to wait. Can someone please tell me how much of a difference there is between the SE84UFO25 and the SE84UFO? Thank you in advance. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 04/12/20 at 17:08:20 Many differences. If you compare the two product pages it should be easy to see. . . . |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 04/12/20 at 17:53:34 It's ironic but the wait for a used to appear may be longer than the wait for a new one to be built. . . . |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kingrex on 04/12/20 at 18:04:18 I was laughing at the I can't wait, will buy used comment. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Steve Deckert on 04/13/20 at 01:49:33 As someone who owns all of it... everything from the 2 watt Zen Triode amplifiers, to the 60 watt Zen Torii Mono's which have been heavily anniversary modded... any time I am listening and find myself running out of power it only takes me about a 5 minutes to go get a bigger amp. With that in mind, I always start out with our 2 watt Zen Triode amps. These are 2 watts that can literally drive almost a dead short. Very rare. Using the 100 dB Zen Master Series crossoverless full-range single-driver open-baffle loudspeakers in a 17 x 27 x 16 room with carpet and a dead ceiling I have never had the urge to change amps. The 25th Anniversary amp has voltage regulator tubes for each channel, so if the output stage started to clip, you would see the regulator tubes start to softly blink. If there is no blinking, the amp is not clipping. You can see it from 20 feet away. The amps have never clipped. OK, you say Steve that's fine, but you have overly sensitive hearing... you listen at low levels. To that I simply apply the 1 dB per beer equation until I either start clipping the amps or give up and go to bed. So far I have always had to give up and go to bed and this has been going on for nearly a year now. So while I love more power, aka Zen Mystery Amp, I have yet to need it with such a superior loudspeaker, and that's only one 15 inch driver in a 2 inch thick 100 lbs baffle. My guess is that the majority of the SET industry designs for maximum power with the lowest distortion which is of course measured into a purely resistive load at the test bench. Usually 8, 10, or 16 ohms. So you might get an amplifier with 8 watts of output under these conditions that while holding the same distortion spec drops to less than a watt when the speaker impedance drops at certain frequencies. So advertised power and what you really get can be two different things. Then there is the voicing... Think of it as the dynamic contrasting that comes from the amplifiers solidity in driving difficult/complex loads. An amplifier that can drive a dead short at full volume for 24 hours without running outside it's normal operating temperature and maintaining it's distortion specs is going to sound like it's really got it's shit together when listening to dynamic rock music, or classical, or really all music regardless of type. I've come to suspect that dynamics are perceived by the body/brain as an equation that contains speed as one of it's main variables. Speed in the equation is defined as the ability to stop, change directions and restart again and repeat. So when an amplifier with incredible speed is used, dynamics are perceived as fully realized. An amplifier with less speed would need a logarithmic increase in power and subsequent drop in output impedance to sound similar. Similar is a generous term... Sadly Decware watts is a rare island in the ocean of hi-fi that you can only realize by first hand experience. The math/specs will leave you dazed and confused because that math was never meant to dictate how something will actually sound, only how it performs under unrealistic and highly controlled conditions. Over the years we have gone from the most esoteric and complex compound radiuses angled horn enclosures that no one can actually build... to a simple dense thick baffle properly shipped to deliver a superior sound to anything else we have previously done in the past 30 years. I could go one for days about it's advantages, the incredible bass response (what?) and the projection and dynamics that other speakers simply can't achieve... but part of the 1dB per beer equation is that after 1 dB into the formula there is no longer any point talking about it. Steve |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 04/13/20 at 02:18:41 That should be reposted... Just about everywhere! Saved, copied printed. Best to all this evening, Scott |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Geno on 04/13/20 at 13:25:43 I own a 2017 SE84UFO (with the 25th anniversary mods) , rated at 2.3 watts per channel. I remember when I first got interested in getting a tube amp, the fact that the Zen only had 2 watts per channel was very hard to wrap my head around. I thought, how in the hell is this amount of power going to even be close to sufficient??? Well let me try to explain to all that have the same reservations about this. I’ve always thought that there should be a head to head comparison between the 2 watt Zen and an average SS amp so that folks interested in this tube amp might have a gauge. Owning nothing but SS amps for 30 years - my last one was 100w per channel - I feel like a fair estimate would be that the Zen 2 watts would be the equivalent of about 50 watts of SS power. This is with efficient speakers (92db or better) My average listening level with the Zen is at about 1 o’clock. And I almost never get above 2 o’clock and never feel the need to do so. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Brian on 04/14/20 at 04:22:32 Kingrex asked: "Whats your guys take on a stereo 25 compared to monoblocks. Is any sonic bliss lost when the stereo amp is run in mono." If I understand the meaning of your question rightly, there is a misconception here. When going to monoblocks, a person buys two and uses one for the left channel and one for the right. So the music is still listened to in stereo. The idea is that each channel now has it's own separate amplifier so the two channels can not muddy each other's signal. The greater clarity is usually said to be heard as an improved certainty of the sound stage. Brian |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kingrex on 04/14/20 at 04:49:34 A stereo amp bridged is not an optimum use of the original circuit and input|output transformers. I was questioning how much tone change occurs when you bridge a Zen stereo amp. Steve was very clear. His Zen amps work best with a single driver crossoverless speaker around 100 db efficient. My speakers have 2 x 15" drivers a horn and crossover per speaker. I went with a SET 845 based amp with 22 watts of power. If I quad amp (2 x monos) I may try a Zen for rhe horn. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Steve Deckert on 04/14/20 at 15:45:34 Quote:
What I probably said was that single-driver crossoverless speakers have the greatest resolution. That resolution comes from the drivers' speed. The lack of a parasitic crossover is a bonus, and nothing images better than a point source. For these reasons, a good single-driver crossoverless speaker will allow you to hear how far ahead of the pack a Zen Triode amplifier actually is, whereas other speakers will subtly mask it's beauty. Getting hung up on power vs. 2 watts... let's talk about performance. The ideal demonstration of performance with a 2 watt Zen Triode Amplifier comes when one is paired with 4 - 15 inch drivers per channel and a pair of 8 inch full-range drivers. This notion that our low power amps can't control large drivers is completely false. Also, as far as the amplifiers ability to drive complex loads, there isn't much that can outperform one due to it's ability to drive nearly a dead short. Case in point, it will drive full size Magnapans with stunning bass response when 8 out 10 high power amps fail. The drawback is of course the speakers don't get loud enough to be fully useful with 2 watts. Another example is electrostatic speakers that use an interface. Hardest load for any amplifier you could create... many amps simply fail at it, regardless of power. The Zen Triodes (all Decware amps actually) drive them wonderfully, again in the case of the 2 watts, not enough to play the speakers loud. Then there's more conventional reflex speakers, like the Dalhquist DQ10's which had an impedance dip around 2 ohms, and a massively complex crossover. Zen drives it fine, just won't get loud. All three of these examples have an efficiency in the low to mid 80's which is why they don't get loud enough with 2 watts. I'm explaining all this for the casual reader who finds this post on Google, because I absolutely do not want to be lumped into the false narrative that our 2 watt amps need and or work best with a single-driver crossoverless speaker around 100dB efficient when they work with any speaker design from the mid 90's on up, crossover or not, multi-driver or not, etc., Now, if you're lucky enough to actually find a single-driver crossoverless loudspeaker that is 100dB efficient and has full bass response, it means you own a Zen Master Series baffle with the Lii Audio F15 driver... and yes, they sound great on the 2 watt amps. Other than ours, I know of no other offerings that actually reach 100dB with a single driver, and have chest throttling bass with the imaging and highs to go with. Steve |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ArtMan on 04/14/20 at 21:38:22 Now, if you're lucky enough to actually find a single-driver crossoverless loudspeaker that is 100dB efficient and has full bass response, it means you own a Zen Master Series baffle with the Lii Audio F15 driver... To expand on this subject, for those with a more modest budget, Randy's Caintuck Lii 15 speakers use the same speaker element with a smaller and more resonate baffle. They can do a reasonably credible imitation of Steve's flagship speakers. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Geno on 04/14/20 at 22:57:49 Hi Art. Reasonably credible is really cutting the 8" Betsy short. I own these and the Crystal 10's, and the Lil' Betsys can be better in the detail department than the Crystal's, or any other driver I've heard. They really are my personal favorites. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kingrex on 04/15/20 at 01:03:51 I have tried Audio Nirvana and Voxativ in open baffle. The Voxativ by far was a more pure, clean and accurate driver. Either however were lacking in richness and body when the piano and vocals started. The Voxativ was drop dead gorgeous doing simple violin. Good enough I would like to have a enclose made to bring out the bass. Open baffle is wonderful as the layman can make a very good sounding product with little engineering. The multi driver with horn and crossover I use is not as pure as a single driver. But it does something I can't find in a single driver. Just a choice |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kingrex on 04/15/20 at 01:20:58 But, that is not to say Steve hasn't put together an excellent single driver open baffle. Especially one with the tubed EQ. I very much like open baffle. I use multi driver open baffle. I like it a lot more than my friends Wilsons. I do like one friends Daedalus. That is a very nice boxed speaker. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Archie on 04/15/20 at 01:34:38 Kingrez, My 2 cents. I'm sure I've said this in another thread but the F15s in the full sized baffle give the most lifelike piano and vocal presentation that I've ever heard. I have a grand piano in my living room so I can compare. I don't have the communication skills to describe it but the "hype" on these speakers is real. One test for me is how loud I can listen and not realize how loud it really is. These go insanely loud by that metric. Female vocals are to die for with these. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Brian on 04/15/20 at 03:16:46 Kingrex I follow you now. I beg the pardon. I misunderstood. Brian |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kingrex on 04/15/20 at 04:47:26 Its fine Brian. Stereo is so often a contentious subject. We spend huge amounts of money on them, then become very defensive over what we have built. Wouldn't it be terrible if we selected wrong. If we could have done better with our money. I want to try one of Steve's amps one day. At this time with what I have configured, it does not seem the right piece. Its not so easy to just switch. My god, imagine selling all you have and starting new every time someone told you your stuff was inferior and theirs was better. I dont think you would ever have a chance to listen. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ArtMan on 04/16/20 at 15:06:26 Hi Geno, It was not my intention to dismiss the 8" Betsy driver. I have no doubt you have greater resolution than my 15" drivers. I trust Randy when he says his favorite is the one he is presently listening to. I think my main point was for those less familiar with Decware and equivalent small businesses, that one can get close to the sound of Steve's flagship speakers for a fraction of the cost. A good source, a SE84UFO amp and the Caintuck Lii 15's can get one 90% of the way of Steve's system. The amp, with upgraded capacitors, combined with the Lii 15's can be had for around $2,000. That is an extraordinary value. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kingrex on 04/16/20 at 15:38:57 I looked at the Caintuck speakers. I believe a baffle has an optimum size to limit back waves and forward wave interactions. On a budget I would build from plywood. Baffle materials make a difference. They all have a sonic signature. Most single drivers lack deep bass fundamentals and on the top end harmonic completeness. An 8" driver is more limited on bass than a 15. An 8 may do highs better. Hence speakera such as Zu. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/31/20 at 16:46:36 The 25th Anniversary modded SE84UFO3s and CSP3 just continue to astonish me with the level of fidelity I can squeeze from them, and the variety of sounds and textures. Right now I'm enjoying Sophia Electric 274B Aqua in the Monoblocks with a pair of supposedly "rare" 6N6P from the 'seventies that have such a clear and sweet midrange and treble, and in the CSP3 an RCA Type 80 globe and all the other tubes are Steve's 6N5P, which are also in the ZTPRE. Several tubes are really good in the ZROCK2 with these complements, right now a Sylvania 6189 from Steve. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by ScottNC on 08/31/20 at 20:21:59 Nice post,Happy Monday and here’s to your 17,000th Post! Cheers Scott |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Rivieraranch on 08/31/20 at 21:10:47 Congratulations, Uncle Lon! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Greg C on 08/31/20 at 21:17:25 ...Congratulation Lon on the posts...I have enjoyed and benefited from all I have read...thanks and keep it up Greg |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/31/20 at 22:17:42 Ha, thanks Scott! If I hadn't accidentally deleted a profile from last century I'd have even more posts! Thanks Jim and Greg. I'll keep it up as apparently I can't stop. Wink |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Steve Deckert on 09/01/20 at 02:37:23 This might be a good time to mention that I don't think the work "dick" is on the bad word list anymore, I believe I took it off the list when I saw your Phillip K. D*ck predicament. ; ) Also nice update, and I agree with you. That preamp injected in the mix is after you've had one, no longer optional. Steve |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 09/01/20 at 03:23:25 Oh, will be nice to have that last name complete, thanks for that Steve. Yes. . . oddly enough I love having both the ZTPRE and the CSP3 with mods in the system. I've tried taking one or the other out and it's so much better with them both Iespecially as my sources are balanced). The 25th Anniversary Mods are a great step forward. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 09/26/20 at 18:45:56 Gosh, this 25th Anniversary Modified Experience is just. . . climbing a mountain. Sometimes you make a misstep with gain riding or tube-rolling and you hang on and regroup and get to a new height. You rest and then you feel you have an insight as to how to get up a little higher. . . . This week I played around with input tubes and I now have for input tubes an entire complement of Amperex 7308 (mostly Holland, a few USA) with the exception of the ZROCK2 which has a tube Steve sent, a Sylvania 6189 that just seems near perfect in that component. Wow. With the Tesla 0A2s, the Arcturus 0B3 and Cunningham Type 80 Globes in the Monoblocks and an RCA Type 80 Globe in the CSP3 I'm getting great sound of a new level perhaps. I should stop, sit tight. Enjoy the view. But then others ignited a spark of curiosity of the 6NS7 types. So. . . in a few weeks I'll be trying those out. It never ends. Which with these quality components and this type of sound to listen to. . . is a great thing. Keeps us involved with the components and learning about them. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/16/21 at 13:54:32 Okay, this has to be some kind of world record for me but I haven't rolled a tube in the main system in a month and so I have to be immensely satisfied with the sound and I'm going to try to just leave things entirely alone because I am just spinning discs and getting washed in the sound happily. Here's my tube lineup: ZTPRE: Amperex 6085 PQ with adapters ZROCK2: Amperex 7062 piched waist CSP3 with Mods: RCA/Cunningham Type 80 globe, RCA 6SN7 tall Gray Glass with adapters SE84UFO3 monoblocks with Mods: Sophia Electric Aqua 274B, Telsa 0A2, Marshall labeled Chatham 0C3W, RCA 6SN7 tall Gray Glass with adapters, Steve's red-tipped output tubes The synergy is great, these complements just compliment each other so. Getting back into the low-powered Zen amps was my first step into the ecstatic zone, they just have a natural organicness that the push-pull amps don't provide for me, and with the Anniversary Mods and the preamps I have all the headroom I need and to spare (which seems miraculous, but the HR-1 are the cat's meow for me). The final puzzle piece was the 0C3--I never could get those to fit before but Will tugged my sleeve to the key: restructuring the gain between the components. Steve and Bob have gotten me to a plateau I could not have dreamed of before this decade. I'm forever grateful and will continue to carry the torch. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/14/21 at 17:57:19 Things change. An audio friend convinced me to try some Synergistic Research Orange fuses. In my system I have an SR Blue in the P15, and all other fuses were Audio Magic Super fuses, which I really liked a lot. (All my Decware components had these fuses and my PS Audio components except for the P15 still have stock fuses, which PS Audio considers audiophile fuses, not the cheapest of possibilities). So I put a pair of the Orange fuses in the SE84UFO3 Monoblocks with the Anniversary mods. About two full weeks of changes happened. At first I missed the Audio Magic. Then about four days in the Orange began to show me that they were different, perhaps not better. During the second week the Orange proved their worth, and they continued to impress. The biggest differences between them was that there was a mid-bass film within the sound signature with the Audio Magic which went away with the Orange, and perhaps as a result the Orange provided a deeper imaging and sound stage, just a bit, but a noticeable bit. This led me to a volley of tube rolling of the voltage rectification for the output tubes, and the voltage rectification for the components. I ended up with my trusty Arcturus 0B3 regulation tubes, and in the Monoblocks a pair of RCA 5V4G tubes. The RCA/Cunningham Type 80 globe remains in the CSP3 with the Anniversary mods. As a result, another inch forward on the road to sonic bliss. I really like the frequency balance and sonic signature these changes have made and I roll along quite happily from disc to disc. But in keeping with my true nature of restlessness . . . I ordered one of the new Purple fuses for my PS Audio P15 regenerator, and also a used Orange fuse to use in my Zen Line Conditioner in my audio visual system (which only has a stock fuse). The apple cart will begin to be upset tomorrow, but I'm pretty confident that replacing the Blue with a Purple will be a positive move. (The Blue will go into the P10 in my headphone system). |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 01/06/22 at 18:15:15 What an adventure a Decware system is. If you have an inclination to sonic exploration you just can't be bored. I managed to score another of my PS Audio DirectStream DAC that is fully modded with new, better transformers and fitted with a power board that accommodates an outboard 12 Volt Linear Power Supply among other modifications. As I have time before this arrives I spent some time thinking of how to reconfigure the set up to include the LPS and decided to do something I haven't for a while: try just one preamp in the system. And this time I found I preferred the sound of the system with just the ZTPRE, and not the ZTPRE and the CSP3 with Anniversary mods both in the system. I was always fidgeting with the CSP3 to get if just so and now (possibly because I'm now running 6085 in the ZTPRE and 6SN7 in the Monoblocks) there's a bit less of a compressed sound, a smidge more dynamic openness with just the ZTPRE. Let this simmer for a day and it's going to stay. So I put the CSP3 in the audio/visual living room system in place of the CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods I have there. And again, a subtle improvement--I had a better fuse in the CSP3 for one thing and the change to the main system also freed up one of my best pairs of interconnects that I put into the living room system between CSP3 and Taboo Mk IV with Anniversary mods. . . . Overall a double win! And now the CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods lost out in the musical chairs game. Hmmm. It's good to have options, one of which may be finding her a new home. I'm looking forward to the incoming DirectStream DAC with all the modifications--word from owners are that these mods make a big difference. I plan on selling my trusty current one if I do prefer the new one--I have to pay for these toys somehow! It's such a fascinating audio journey with these components. The Decware preamps, amps and speakers let me hear so much! Sometimes what I hear leads me into a less pleasant arena, but I can always find a way to a great sounding presentation and experience. I know you all know what I mean. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/18/22 at 13:53:25 Amazing machines these--you can have so many different signatures just changing tubes. The one downside to the Monoblocks is one has to have TWO tubes. But the upside of just a bit more power is needed for me. I've rolled various positions lately as my new improved front end led to some nice sonic subtle bits of discovery. With Westinghouse 0B3 Was nearly there but just a bit light in the lower frequencies. Rolling in a pair of RCA Type 80 short straight-shouldered rectifiers (I think these may have been the final evolution of this type?) set me right where I want to be. I'm trying to resist the urge to pull the amps out, open them up, and roll in regulation tubes for the input. tubes. . . I haven't done that in some time, probably two years. And I'm resisting the urge to send my XTPE in for the 25th Anniversary mods, truly first world problems. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 03/16/22 at 15:18:52 Found another very cool signature by going back to the 0D3W type voltage regulation tube for the output tubes. I had a pair of Tung-Sol I don't think I ever used before and I paired these with the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B rectifiers and have a very tight but slightly relaxed (if that makes sense) presentation that has a sweet treble and very open midrange, with taut yet impactful bass. Very nice dynamic contrasts. Of course I'm not going to change a thing. (Yeah right). Really enjoying the presentation over a number of recordings. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 04/21/22 at 14:40:57 Well of course I did change a thing . . .or two. I ended up going back to the Arcturus 0B3 voltage regulation tubes for the output tubes--with some material the 0D3W were just too "tart and tight." The 0B3, especially this pair of bottle-shaped, always give me the warmth and ambiance I need regardless of recording. And ever since I introduced the modded PS Audio DSD DAC into the system with its Farad Super3 power supply for the analog output I have been trying to find just the right power cable for the Super3. Until last week the best fit was the new Decware DHC-3 which is a fantastic power cable for the money. But I still was chasing a bit of a "silvery" sound that was just a tad too bright for my system and decided I would retry the very first power cable I tried with the Super3, the PS Audio Perfectwave AC-12 that is connected to all my other components but one. And darned if it didn't solve my "silvery" sound issue and become the very best fit. I think what has transpired is that the DAC and the Super3 both needed quite a bit of break-in when I got it and I have managed to get to the "all it can be stage" and that cable I first didn't quite like was in fact perfect after seasoning. I now just can't believe how amazing the system sounds and am spinning disc after disc with delight. And all this is possible because these 25th Anniversary modded components are so transparent and also musical that I can hear and address the limitations of each stage of the system and benefit from every little minor improvement. Wholly cow these are the cat's meow, as Steve's cats know. The DHC-3 ended up in my headphone only system powering the CSP2+ with the Anniversary mods I have newly installed there and man it is doing a fantastic job. A better job than a .5 meter PS Audio AC-12 I was using before had been doing. Synergy. . . it's an elusive thing, a devil sometimes to pursue for a number of reasons, but so satisfying to find. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 05/30/22 at 12:29:50 I wish I could leave well enough alone, but so much more than with the Push-Pull designs, these SE84UFO3 Monoblocks are like chameleons--they can be transformed with a single tube or with any adjustment to the gain "tapestry" feeding them, or even to different modes and settings of my power regenerator. . . and I keep exploring and finding whole different "amplifiers" in a way. I use certain tubes as anchors. . . the tubes in my ZTPRE and my ZROCK2 have been stuck in there because every time I try another I lose too much of the "magic." A recent purchase of a super matched pair of Amperex 7062 with halo getters as inputs to the Monoblocks brought me a certain richness with a nice foundation of the lower frequencies that enticed me to move out the Sophia Aqua 274B rectifiers that had been in there a while for a pair of RCA/Cunningham Type 80 Globes and the synergy with all of these has put me closer to a fine analog sound than ever before, relaxing but drawing me in. I'm going to leave this in place. Yeah, sure. For a while at least! In a few days I should have the pair of Steve's output tubes given the Cryotone treatment in stock, and this will be a great way to see what the treatment does to this already killer tube. Hope I like what it does more than the Cryotone 6SN7s. (I'll try those with the new output tubes too). |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by BicycleJoe on 05/30/22 at 14:51:08 This thread has left me yearning to receive my modest system so I can begin the journey. It's the journey not the destination https://youtu.be/k3fz6CC45ok |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Earthbound on 05/30/22 at 15:57:46 Likewise BicycleJoe. I’ve ordered the mk5, csp3 and zrock. The research and purchases, including Zu Soul Supreme speakers has reinvigorated my interest in music. It’s even made me enjoy my current system more. I rearranged the speakers and seating position recently and have enjoyed really listening to the music. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/25/22 at 16:29:37 Well Steve's output tubes from Cryotone mentioned above have been in use for hundreds of hours, and I did a comparison to my most recently used pair from Steve and there is a bit of a sonic improvement, I wouldn't say "game changing" by any means, but perhaps a bit smoother in the treble which is always welcome. The proof will be if I get years of use out of them. . . that will make them worth, gulp, four times the price or so. The system sounds so good. I keep seeking a bit of lushness that I think I won't hear until my long wait is over and I have the Sarah 300B to listen to--I think that is the one element that distinguishes the two topologies and that I crave a bit. I've had to replace voltage regulation tubes for the input tubes and have RCA 0B2 in which are really nice, a touch more warmth and a smoothness that is endearing. And I've been rolling input tubes in the ZROCK2 and just can't unseat the Amperex pinched waist 7062 in there--any tube sounds good but these just have such a wide open sound and a transparency coupled with dynamic contrast that no other seems to approach. So I'm going to give up trying for a while. I just keep marveling in this sound. My downstairs audio/visual system sounds really good as well, in large part because the large room gives me great sound and as my sources there aren't up to the same snuff as those in the main system, a ZBIT, ZROCK2 and CSP3 going into a DALAUDI DL2886 amp is a great set up for the (mostly video entertainment and news) material played through that system. In that system the ZROCK2 and the CSP3 have the 25th Anniversary mods. . .and so I get the 25th Anniversary Modified Experience. I'm blessed with such great sound . . . and one day. . . the Sarah will be here to enrich my situation further. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by CAJames on 07/25/22 at 18:17:32 Thanks Lon, that makes it easier for me to put off spending 500 bucks (gulp) on the Cryotone power tubes. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JBzen on 07/25/22 at 18:48:33 The comparison I been waiting for! I will not dare make any assumptions on your experience with aged cryo tubes Lon. Just, will put the purchase toward the bottom of potential upgrades. Thanks! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by CAJames on 07/25/22 at 21:58:32 FWIW for a fraction of the price of the cryo tubes I'm getting great sound with Mullard EL822 power tubes and a 6CH6 -> EL84 adapter. The EL822 is a redesigned/upspec'd/ruggedized EL84 that the UK military used for radar and video. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/26/22 at 00:35:14 That's cool. I've tried EL84, EL83 with adaptors, both in different brands, and many different Russian SV83 etc. and I find that I can tune my system best to the tubes I buy from Steve, and there is a slight sound quality boost using the Wathen tubes. Makes me not inclined to try another tube type. (I happen to like that Steve's output tubes utilize the Hazen Grid Mod too.) Now I get about a year out of my power tubes, whichever the type, in my Monoblocks and Taboo, and if I can get three to four times the longevity as Wathen tubes claim then it's a wash monetarily and I get a bit of a sonic boost too. We'll see. I may be using 300B tubes in the main system before the Wathen wear out, ideally. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/04/22 at 14:26:53 My task this week has been to roll input tubes on the monoblocks and see whether I need to make a change. I took out the Wathen 6SN7-WC that I have been trying to like for over a month now with some success--with some tube complements they are more "neutral" than others. But this last run through of tubes in those positions have displaced them for now. I tried Amperex 6DJ8 which were quite nice, Gray Glass RCA 6SN7 which were really good, put 5670 with converter bases in and out pretty quickly (to me they had a "boxy" sound that didn't mesh well with my system), put in US and Holland made 7308s and the Holland 7308s (mine are RCA labeled) have stayed. There's just a body to the sound the Wathen tubes don't have that I find I prefer for all but the very very best recordings, which I confess I don't play that often. A friend of mine whose ears I trusted keeps pushing me towards Mullard 7308s labeled RTC (French military) saying he thinks these are THE tubes that I would like. They aren't cheap. I took some birthday money and added to it and ordered a pair. . . I should get them possibly early next week. If they are as good as he claims. . . I'll be very happy and they'll probably stay in the Monoblocks. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/07/22 at 16:08:43 One recent development. . . a pair of EL83 tubes in converter bases is seducing me. I got in a pair of Philips made in Holland and they are the best of the three pairs I've tried (other two are Mullard and Adzam). I do miss an inner detail smidgeon that I think is the result of the loss of the Hazen Grid Mod playback, but there's that touch of lushness I keep seeking right there with only about ten hours on the tubes. That gave me the opportunity to once again compare the tubes I last bought from Steve with the Cryotone version, this time in my Taboo Mk IV using my ZMF Ori headphones. There is a sonic difference, there's a touch of detail to the Cryotone that also means a bit more treble. A twist of the ZROCK2 can make the two pair sound almost identical. . . . The real proof of the Cryotone worth will be longevity, something that "time will tell." |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/07/22 at 17:37:21 Lon this statement puzzled me, since these are the stock tubes and Steve's high bar Zen Triode design. I understand you waiting to see if the longevity life of the CG tube pans out. Still I didn't like this statement though. Don Wrote his new Cryogenic Rectifier is Quote: "Useful for tubes that tend to be on the harsh side like the 6N1P-EV and the 6P15P-EV." I wouldn't think Steve would use the 6N1P-EV and the 6P15P-EV if they were harsh in the first place. Is that a problem with some of these two tubes? |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/07/22 at 18:21:27 Well, I find that all tubes in a complement matter--I have some rectifiers that the stock tube is just right, as the rectifier is a tiny bit slower perhaps or richer sounding, and then some when there is, I wouldn't say "harsh" but "brighter," perhaps an "edge" to the sound of the stock output tubes because of that rectifier. Now I have had a very ambivalent experience with the Cryotone tubes. Don even seemed miffed at me because I called the 6SN7-WC tube "bright" which he also accused me of calling "harsh" though I didn't. Some here, most who have tried them, think these Cryotone tubes are the cat's meow, whereas with the 6SN7-WC I felt I was hearing the emperor's clothes rustle more than anything. I persisted with the tube and I found a complement that they were pretty good in but after living with that complement for weeks I started rolling input tubes again and found others I preferred. C'est la vie, that's what tube listening is all about. With my comparison of the tubes from Steve and the same output tubes given the Cryotone treatment from Wathen I found a slight increase in detail from the Cryotone, and a bit of an "edge." So perhaps the treatment is adding an element of harshness to a tube that can tend to be that way untreated? I don't know. Because I can change textures and sound character in a number of ways in my system (modes and settings on my regenerator, gain settings on source, preamp, ZBIT, monoblocks) and because I have the amazing ZROCK2 Steve's and Cryotone's can be made to sound almost identical. So the longevity will prove whether they are worth the three times plus price increase. I saw that comment too, and because of his previous pronouncement about my experience with the 6SN7 types. .. I raised an eyebrow. It came back down though. We all experience things differently and that's why I find really the only way to tell how a tube will sound in your system is to try it out and give them ears. But ulimately I wouldn't personally characterize those two tubes Steve used for so long as stock in his amps as "harsh." And I'm not inclined to try that rectifier or other Cryotone tubes right now. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/07/22 at 18:46:44 Yes, Brent Jesse's site can be quite helpful. I pretty much knew about the relevant 6922 types and usable rectifiers before I found his page, but his page has been very helpful for me with 12AU7 type variants. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/07/22 at 19:07:45 I have used 12AT7 & 12 AU7 in the phase inverter slot on Fender guitar amps. it mellows the tone a step from a higher gain AX7. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/07/22 at 19:26:20 I'm using a 12AU7 variant with converter bases in my ZTPRE, the 6085 tube, Amperex Holland. I've tried many sextets of tubes in the ZTPRE but these just won't come out. They give a perfect sound for my system imo. Of course the ZTPRE doesn't have a tube rectifier or two to roll, so that is a "fixed" sound to anchor around. I love this preamp and love it most with the 6085s. I like big input tubes and I cannot lie. ![]() |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Same Old DD on 08/07/22 at 21:29:10 Lon said: "I like big input tubes and I cannot lie." 8-) You have me wondering if I should give my old Lazarus another try. I switched back to sand (Yamaha, '87 pre) because I was getting a restrained feel with it. I had switched out the 12AX7s a couple of times, even tried the 12AU7s and finally, brought back the "old news Yamaha" and gave up on the Lazarus. The old Yamaha does a lot of the phono things about right in my set up. It disappears. Yes, I should have higher grade phono gear, but I don't yet. Now that my LP listening is better, I find myself grabbing an album rather than a CD more often. I'm not familiar with that 6085 tube. You mention you buy tubes from eBay sometimes. Is that where your converter was found also? What converter brand do you use for those? I'm all in with finding the right tube compliment. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/07/22 at 22:00:54 I get almost all my tubes and adaptor/converter bases from eBay. I look for US vendors if I can and I have had literally ZERO issues in the last few decades. There are quite a few vendors for 12AU7 to 6922 tubes, and 6085 can be found. The caveat though is that they are expensive. I mean. . .they cost about as much as CRYOTONE tubes! ;) I really like them--they give a bit more gain and there's a huge wide open mid-range when I use them in the ZTPRE. Every other tube type I try I just miss the 6085, can't take them out. I have the same situation with the 7062 in the ZROCK2. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Same Old DD on 08/07/22 at 23:03:56 Thanks, Lon. I quickly found some $72 NOS Hungarian to try, but I also saw the $375 ones as well. My response to the caveat is that I don't need six, only four for my rig. Since I have not tried these, you know I have to. Just not sure how long it will take to get some age on them, since things are working so well right now. ... and I'm about to tear everything down and change speakers to the F15s for a few weeks. Those are due to arrive in two days. I can't do two major changes at one time! I want to hear the first few burns, though and go from there. Probably get the 6085s in hand and back burner testing for a while as I have my cryo'ed rectifiers. More curious about the Lii drivers at this point. :-/ |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/07/22 at 23:18:49 Yes, sometimes you do have to. :) I have some Tesla ones as well. . . you'll find them "light and airy" in comparison to the Amperex from Holland. Interesting tubes none-the-less. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Same Old DD on 08/07/22 at 23:39:41 Honestly, ever since we moved, I have spent the past seven months playing musical chairs, switching speakers around in my new room. I didn't bring any of the big studio monitors in. My room is modest 12'X14' and overly live at first. I have come full circle back to my age old preferred 2x15+8" full range, OB. So, what did I do? I changed them. What I have now works better than ever. So, what am I going to do? Change them out for something new I have not heard before, the Lii full range 15" drivers. Sometimes you just have to. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 08/08/22 at 00:30:11 I've had periods like that in the past. I'm lucky to have three systems sorted out and I'm really just playing around with tubes and other minor things. It was hard enough, especially in this 104 year old expanded cottage and a minimalist wife. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dr3wman on 08/08/22 at 03:48:21 Man, oh man…..I see I have quite a journey ahead of me, considering the first tubes I’ll own will come with my. MKV. I guess I should look at it as a long term project. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 09/13/22 at 13:23:46 Yes, it's a long-term project. More than four years with my Monoblocks and I'm still exploring tube choices and finding so many different sounds and textures. It's been a focus on rectifiers for me since I changed from 0B2 to 0C2 type (British equivalent) as the input tube regulation. I've found that with gain adjustments between source, ZTPRE, ZBIT and the Monoblocks I can make almost any rectifier sound great. I've gone through 5R4 and 5Y3 types and now am using a pair of Sylvania 5U4GB with a rectangular frame atop that sound very nice. These are rivaling my gold standard Sophia Electric Aqua 274B. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 10/01/22 at 21:51:26 CA James, I just this week got in CV2382 tubes and converter bases, and it's interesting that they are designed for video use the way that the SV83 and 6P15 are. I only have a few hours on them and they haven't seduced me yet, I think I'll next need to try them with different rectifiers. But well made handsome tubes. I'll see how they are with a lot more hours on them. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by CAJames on 10/03/22 at 04:23:01 Yes, mine sound pretty rough out of the box. I’d say 10 hours should be enough to know whether you are on the right track or not. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 10/03/22 at 15:40:07 I have fifteen or so hours on them now and have rolled in a different pair of rectifiers (Sylvania 5U4G) and a different tube in the ZROCK2 (Amperex 5814A) and there's a nice interesting sound produced. Very similar, subtly different, than the Cryotone 6P15 I have been using. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by CAJames on 10/03/22 at 15:54:17 What about the voltage regulator? My experience with the tube was immediately it was different than all the other power tubes I had tried. The sound was bigger and more dynamic, although pretty rough, and lacking detail. After 10ish hours it smoothed out and and sweetened up while maintaining all the dynamics it had initially. As for rectifiers, I've pretty much only used it with my standard GZ33. If you have a GZ32 or 34 (aka 5V4G or 5AR4) in your stash that might be an interesting roll. I might try that today... |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 10/03/22 at 16:36:05 I'm using Sylvania 0B3 (coke bottle) as the voltage regulator. After cycling about five this last few weeks I'm sticking with this one. I'm finding these new output tubes dynamic, very dynamic if I use it with tubes that give me a less favorable tonal balance, but I needed to tame that. I find the Cryotone 6P15 and the 6P15 from Steve to be similarly dynamic and detailed. I have 5R4 and 5RAR4 that I have been rotating lately of varying types but these Sylvania 5U4G are giving me the tonal balance I like. I had been using RCA 5R4 fight before the Sylvania, the Sylvania put it all into perspective. I think the tubes will change a bit more in the next 20 hours or so. I think I do miss a bit the effect of the Hazen Grid Mod though. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 10/03/22 at 19:03:34 Well, just as a comparison I put the Cryotone output tubes back in . . . and immediately relaxed into the music. Better bass and warmth, no decrease in dynamics. That sense of "openness" that I attribute to Christmas Coming Early is back. I'll put the EL822 into the Taboo for a while and get some more hours on them. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 10/04/22 at 03:46:36 Today I fired up for the first time my fully Anniversary modded SE84C+ that I just got back from Decware. Before I sent it in, it had a issue with the left channel playing no music. It was purchased used from a forum member and I only had a chance to listen to it briefly before it went in for an overhaul. The stock tubes were about a year old. The audio chain is streaming Qobuz from a Google Chromecast audio into my Schitt Bifrost True Multibit DAC, through MAC Ultra Silver+ cables, into my ZSTAGE via Decware DAG cables, and into the Zen amp with a pair of MAC QUAD Silver cables. The Zen amp is powered by a custom power cable built by forum member Will and fed into my PSAudio Soloist outlet on a home run circuit. Running them on my ERR speakers with the DH labs Silver Sonic T-14 speaker wires. So what are my first impressions… The short answer is I’m speechless. The upgrades totaled close to $800 which included a new tube set and warranty transfer….it was more than well worth the cost. Out of the box it’s very different from when I sent it in. So what do I hear…. The bass is full and tight on most tracks. The highs are crisp with a little bit of a dry and clinical presentation….but not in a bad way. The mids can be a bit recessed at times, but that’s due to my speakers, which tend to be the culprit. Hopefully my new Miflex caps I bought will help with that once I get a chance to wire them into the ERR’s. The surprise….the backgrounds are black as the ace of spades. It’s quiet with nice decay and all of the detail coming through. From what the guys here have said…that’s the Anniversary mods shining through. I would have never thought this little Zen amp would power my ERR’s sufficiently for my every day listening levels in my new space, but it does so with headroom in reserve. Late night listening sessions…no problem. I’m gonna keep this one short for now and see what tomorrow brings. I’ll repost this in the UFO section Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 10/10/22 at 14:28:31 One of these days I'll set my ERRs back in the system and see how they sound now with the Anniversary Mods in the Monoblocks and the ZROCK2. Glad that your newly returned reborn amp is driving your ERRs so well! Things are very different in my system now. I wanted to try the Wathen 6SN7 again and see if I can make them fit the system. Changed up rectifiers, and voltage regulators, tubes in the ZTPRE, and the gain structure of the system and. . . I still just can't relax into the sound of those tubes. Too tart for me. So since I had cycled through so much I kept on trying different tube complements and at the moment I'm back to an all 7308 signal chain with six Amperex in the ZTPRE and French military Mullards in the amps. Had to move to a pair of Sylvania 5U4G to get the right blend, along with a pair of Westhinghouse 0B3. I have an Amperex 12AU7 in the ZROCK2. Nice sound, a different signature than I had before, a touch laid back soundstage wise with a crisp attack on the notes. Will settle back with this arrangement for a while and play a variety of material. These components are just so amazing--they reveal so much. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by jec3504 on 10/10/22 at 15:10:57 Hey Lon, Purchased a quad set of Wathen 6SN7. Did run them in the Torii first for a day. In the Torri I would agree with the tart sound. Thought about using a 0B3 with them. My goal was to use them with my preamp. Was using RCA side getter 6SN7 GTAs in the preamp for the non holographic gain structure. In my preamp they are super quiet, smooth and have great instrument separation. They add a lot a presence in the sound. Your description of them along with speaking to Don lead to the most satisfying tube purchase. Fun going after a tube for a specific purpose and then have them perform way beyond expectations. ![]() |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 10/10/22 at 15:13:18 If you got them to work for you that's great. Not my luck, no matter what I used them with. I can't really run 6SN7 in my ZTPRE, so it's just the amps to use them in, though they don't really gel in my other two systems either. Really enjoying the setup right now though. So many different possible presentations from the system! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by jec3504 on 10/10/22 at 15:48:14 Quote:
That's fantastic Lon. Nice summary of the your experience. Having trouble finding Westhinghouse 0B3. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Have a great day, Joseph |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 10/10/22 at 15:54:53 I got a few pairs from eBay. They are just a bit darker than the Sylvania I generally used before. I have looked for RCA 0B3 but have never seen any, I don't know if they were ever a part of the RCA lineup. These Westinghouse sound a lot like I imagine the RCA might. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 10/14/22 at 16:30:20 CA, after a lot of hours in the Taboo I put the CV2382/EL822 back in the Monoblocks. . . and they lasted an hour before I pulled them out. They just are 'hazier' and a bit smoother than the Wathen 6P15P or those same from Steve. I just don't get "all the sound" I do from those. I think it's the lack of the Hazen Grid Mod, after living more than a dozen years with output tubes that take advantage of that I find it hard to be without. I enjoyed output tubes in the Torii that didn't enjoy the mod, but I just miss the differences too much in the Zen amps. I have a pair of 6CH6 on the way to me as that is the tube that the bases are set to convert to 6922, and I don't think it's exactly the same as these. That will be my last experiment with power tubes for these amps--I'll stick with the 6P15P type unless by some fortunate alignment of the stars the 6CH6 proves to be a better tube. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/03/22 at 16:48:20 Man. . .the 25th Anniversary Modified Experience. . . wow. With tube rolling and other tuning/tailoring factors it's like having multiple amplification/playback experiences. Never gets tiring! After a year of rectifier exploration I've decided the best all rounder for me is the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B. They just have a big open sound unlike any other with my favored tube complements. And I'm back to anchoring my sound in 7308 tubes. I have four US made and two English made in my ZTPRE, and two Holland made in my amps, and it seems a great blend. I keep waffling on tubes for the ZROCK2, each one has a a distinct advantage, but overall I have my tube complements locked in, fabulous sound, and I am trying to just leave them be and enjoy the amazing sound. And in the future. . . the 300B. . .another entirely different tube adventure ahead. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 12/12/22 at 20:05:37 Well I did leave things alone for just over a week! That might be a record. I still just had a tonal tightness that bothered me, that I kept trying to correct with input tubes in the ZROCK2. But. . .I decided to try moving some 7308 around so I put the French in the Monoblocks and the Dutch in the ZTPRE and that was an improvement.Then I moved away from the standard 12AU7 type in the ZROCK2 and popped in one of my oldest compatible tubes, a late fifties 6085 with a D getter and pinched waist, which I believe is the earliest of that tube type. That has proven to be the missing ingredient. Everything is quite nice. . .even very crankable . . . right now. Now to leave it alone for months til the 300B is on hand. Yeah, right. I can . . .try. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 01/30/23 at 14:59:25 Okay three new tweaks the last few months that have moved things forward towards improved sound for me: First, under my speakers I’ve had great success with various isolating footers to lead me to the conclusion that in my systems isolating speakers from the floor is more successful than coupling them. My latest experiment involved trying IsoAcoustics Aperta 300 Isolation Stands. These contributed a very different presentation that I had to work with and oddly I think these needed to “break in” a few days but when I had it all dialed in I got a bit more of sound stage width and depth (due to the nature of my main system’s room I don’t get the sound stage I might in a wider, larger space) and a ver clear top end and tight bottom end. After a month plus of listening I’m really enjoying the sound and consider it an upgrade. Then I decide to add one more Audio Magic M-1 fuse in the system. I had all Synergistic Research Purple fuses in the system, moving from Audio Magic Super. I then replaced the Purple in my PS Audio P15 regenerator with the new kid on the block, the Audio Magic M-1 and really liked the little bit of smoothening that brought. Months later I was still struggling with a bit of an edge to the top end and following the lead of some of the PS Audio forumites I replaced the Purple in my ZROCK2 with another M-1. After a week of use it has proven to be a good investment—took that bit of an edge right away and the tonal balance is just where I want it. (Yes, these things are expensive; but music and stereo stuff is what I spend my money on, it’s moved all my other vices aside). Finally after some discussion here about Mad Scientist products I decided to try their Black Discus Nano and ordered six which I placed atop the power cords at the IEC inlet of my P15, my PS Audio DSD DAC and on the Farad Super3 that feeds its audio board, my ZTPRE, and the two SE84UFO3 Monoblocks. Immediately everything got darker and slower which was startling and only lasted about ten minutes, and then things seemed hardly any different than without them but over the next days of listening I noticed little details of imaging and dynamics that indicated to me that they were working as advertised in lowering the noise floor a bit. I took them out for a day. . . and was happier when I put them back in. I’ve ordered a few more, one for my ZROCK2 and for my audio-visual system. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 01/30/23 at 17:35:03 Lon, I’m glad to hear that you had a positive effect with the Mad Scientist Audio black nano disks. I have to say that I was skeptical at first when I got them years ago… But once I tried them on my tube gear I did notice the lowered noise floor as well. Prior to owning both of my Decware tube amps… I had used it on my solid state home AV receiver and did notice variations as well… but they were more profound when I use them on both Decware amps. I do plan to order more now that I just got my ZRock2. I’ve also been very intrigued about swapping out the fuses in both my amps… But I know that they can get a bit expensive so for right now I’m going to hold off. I just picked up the Rega Fono MM K5 preamp, so right now I have shifted my focus a bit into vinyl. It never ends but it’s so much fun! Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by CAJames on 01/30/23 at 17:45:27 Hey Dom, Quote:
This is my advice to those who are #fusecurious. Start with ceramic fuses that should only cost a dollar or two but should be an audible improvement over stock glass fuses. If you you don't hear a difference you are done. If you do then you can think about moving up the fuse food chain. For me, I never ever thought I'd go in for "hundred buck" fuses but a few years ago against my better judgement I bought Synergistic Research Orange fuses and I don't regret it at all. They go on sale, usually in the summer, and you can get 3 for the price of 2 which helps a little. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 01/30/23 at 18:15:33 Dom, CA's advice above is good. Start small and see if you hear the difference. I started with Furutech fuses that they don't seem to make any longer and the most basic Audio Magic fuses and I heard the difference. . . darn it. And I've heard improvements all the way up the ladder of the Synergistic Research (I started off with a used blue I bought from a PS Audio forumite. . . and then Orange which I actually liked the least) and then Purple. And with Audio Magic went to Super and then M-1. I'd be surprised if you didn't hear the difference. I'd liken it to tube-rolling to really really good tubes. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 01/30/23 at 21:00:28 Lon/CAJames, Thanks for the advice. Since my Zen amp has been the daily driver lately….I will try that one first. I’ve read other posts where the Orange fuse is talked about quite often. I’ll definitely try the ceramic fuses first to hear how it sounds. I’ll keep an eye out for that sale for the orange fuses in the summer…by then I’m sure I would be ready to jump into the boutique fuses. I feel like sometimes with my audio journey I get pulled in different directions on the fly, so while it keeps it interesting, it also prevents me from staying on a continued path. Good and bad…but either way I’m not complaining. James….I’m still waiting for the EL822 tubes to come in from the Ukraine. There has been an issue with the Royal Mail service with a strike and a cyber attack….so all imports have been put on a brief hold. I’ve been itching to try them out with the GZ rectifiers I bought from you. So right now I’m in a holding pattern so to speak. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Sean on 01/30/23 at 21:42:30 Dom, Are you in the US? I have a pair of 3 amp fuses I bought on ebay from China for my UFO and ZP3. They were cheap and I'm a skeptic that wanted to hear what a fuse could do before spending on "good" ones. They did make a difference, I thought they were a bit bright for my tastes. If you're in the US, PM your address and I'll send you one. I'm going to keep one for emergency use I don't need two. I got a pair of Oranges from PCX when they were clearing them out. I like the oranges, but have only heard the stock fuse and the Chinese fuses. I believe the Orange fuses are being discontinued. Anyhow, I figure trying one out won't hurt, maybe it works better for you. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 01/31/23 at 07:04:07 Sean, That would be great. Thank you for the offer. I’ll PM you. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/07/23 at 00:43:50 Sean, have you tried changing the direction on the fuse that is a little bright? I find with fuses one direction is a little brighter than another, for whatever reason. The M-1 fuse has completely settled in now and with the Sunbeam (Holland made) 12AU7 in the ZROCK2 I am getting just the right sound. I have left the system alone as far as tube-rolling for over a week which is almost some sort of record. In fact the system is sounding so so good I feel like a madman inviting an SEWE300B into my listening room, especially since I have a new DAC coming and that will be another jump in sound quality, and another layer cost to manage. But. . . I just have to hear the 300B and I realize now I really can't keep both the Monoblocks AND the 300B so the winner will stay after a month or so . . . . Wow, I never thought I'd be in this upcoming position. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Sean on 02/07/23 at 16:55:34 Lon, I didn’t try it in the opposite direction. I was aware that was an option, if it sounded bad. I don’t think the fuses sounded horrible, they just shifted focus towards the brighter side and maybe a bit of focus off the low end. I’m not a fan of brighter sounded and my room seems sensitive to that. While they were racking up burn in hours I found the clearance deal on the Orange fuses. Once I popped those in, I didn’t look back. I sent one of the fuses to Dominick for him to fiddle with. Depending how it works for him the idea of switching directions could be an option for him. The Create fuses were really an experiment, my first experience of upgrading fuses. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/07/23 at 17:00:52 Glad you tried both directions, sad that neither was really right. "Bright" is my worst enemy as well. I had Orange, and in my system there was an edginess that I kept gritting my teeth listening to when I had more than one. I went from there to Purple and Audio Magic M-1 and the mix of those is perfect for me. Yes, they are expensive--but this is where I spend my money AND they really do make a difference in the system. I already have another M-1 for the new PS Audio DAC coming in a week or two (perhaps) and I'll have to think about which of the two fuses to use in the SEWE300B when it arrives (takes two!) It's nice to see that others find fuses to make an impact; I'm not the only crazy one. ;) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/08/23 at 05:52:49 Sean, I’ll be able to mess with the fuses in the upcoming days since I’ll be off from work. I’ll post my experience with flipping the fuses around to hear how they sound. Where did you find the Orange fuses on clearance…I may be tempted to pull the trigger. I went to the website of the M-1 fuses Lon is using….and I’m intrigued. I’ve been listening to my vinyl rig lately after getting the Rega fono preamp in house and the ZROCK2. All I can say is that I’m on a new tear and I now have my wife telling me albums she wants me to buy. This is the first time she has actively been interested in music…so I’m stoked. I now even have my 11 year old daughter dropping the needle…and she loves it. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Sean on 02/08/23 at 17:00:27 Dom, I got the fuses from PCX, I think they were $80 each. https://www.partsconnexion.com/srfuse-orange.html Since they are discontinued, they may be tough to find. I believe on Audiogon they do a buy two, get one free a few times a year. A few guys here are getting their vinyl side up n running. I think my vinyl side is set up where it'll be for awhile. For the past two weeks I've been getting my digital file side smoothed out. I upgraded the card in my Schiitbox Bifrost and while it's no world beater, I'm finally able to sit and relax and not have digital "cringe" or "glare". I wonder if the fuse in the Schiit...oh look, rabbit hole! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by CAJames on 02/08/23 at 17:20:11 That is very timely Sean, as I just blew one of my SR Orange fuses this morning. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Sean on 02/08/23 at 23:01:46 Doh! Sorry to hear that. I had fuse blowing anxiety for a bit, every time I power things up it goes away a little bit. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/09/23 at 01:39:42 Went through some tubes in one of my "tackle" boxes and put an RCA triple mica D-getter 6189 into the ZROCK2. Very nice presentation after that all warmed up (seems to take at least five hours). Quite accurate and yet a dash of warmth. I'll leave this one in a while. The Audio Magic M-1 fuse in the ZROCK2 is all seasoned in and is a great choice for that component. The system is just shining right now, giving me great soundstage even in the position I'm forced to use the speakers which is not the most conducive for soundstage, and great dynamic "breath" to the sound. In a way I have been driving myself crazy because I ordered both a new DAC and the SEWE300B and shouldn't have ordered both, but couldn't NOT order either one of them. Then I told myself to justify the expense I would sell my Monoblocks if the SEWE300B is better or vice versa. But the truth is. . . I can't imagine selling my Monoblocks. Period. Unless I needed money for a crisis and there was no choice. So I'll have to scrimp and save and sell off some stuff more determinedly because I just know the Monoblocks will stay, put to use as a headphone amp or some such and possibly rotated into the main system every now and then. Even though that is the less sane solution to the fiscal problem I put myself in, I slept easier as soon as I did make it! Maybe the anxiety was just a byproduct of the cold I seem to have caught last week. Unfortunately my wife slid into it as well. We are experiencing a lot of symptoms that some vaccinated and boosted adults such as ourselves do come down with, but we tested and we're negative, and we're starting to be on the other side of the illness after day four or so. Whew. I am rarely sick, and I don't like it, and our dog Fiona really does not like it when both her servants are under the weather! I got to listen to a few hours of music today and I swear it helps me heal. I don't know what I would do without music, it's my biggest comfort and passion I think. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/09/23 at 12:08:31 Sean, Thanks for the info. I know we are supposed to use a 3A slo blow fuse but parts connection only has the 3.15 A fuse listed. While I’m sure the 3.15 A fuse is fine to use….did you happen to order a 3A fuse and they are now just out of them…or did you buy the 3.15A fuse? Lon….I was surprised when you originally said you would possibly sell your monoblocks if you preferred the 300B better. I love my fully modified SE84C+ Amp, so I’m hoping someday I’ll get lucky enough to acquire another one to have a monoblock setup. It won’t have the VR tubes like your mono’s …but I’m ok with that. Today I have a free day…so I’ll be running both the Torii and the Zen amp as I go through some new Vinyl I bought, and search my streaming services for new music to listen to. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by HockessinKid on 02/09/23 at 12:57:25 Dom, SR does not make a 3A small, slow blow orange fuse. The 3.15A fuse is the one you want. I've had the orange fuses throughout my equipment for two years. Sound great and no blown fuses to date following my turn on/off sequence. HK |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/09/23 at 16:02:17 Roger, Thank you. I just didn’t know since this is my first go round into exploring fuses. At half off….it makes no sense not to dive in. There is so much positive feedback from everyone here by upgrading their fuses that I’ve developed FOMO! Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by HockessinKid on 02/09/23 at 16:44:13 Just keep in mind the SR fuses are directional. Give it a good 5-10 hours of listening with familiar music then switch it around to see what sounds best. Enjoy. HK |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Sean on 02/09/23 at 16:44:40 Confirming what HK said, 3.15 is what I put in my ZP3 and UFO. FOMO - the struggle is real. No matter the improvements and upgrades I make, there’s always “just one more”! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/09/23 at 22:28:07 Sean, Please tell me more about your Schiit Bifrost upgrade. I have been toying with the idea of upgrading the card in mine. I like the idea of the upgrade making the Bifrost a truly balanced DAC, especially since I run it with my ZBIT. Other than that,can you tell me more about what you are hearing from the upgrade. At $300 bucks…that puts the cost close to a Gungnir and other DAC’s like the Denefrips. That’s why I’ve been a bit reluctant to upgrade. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Sean on 02/09/23 at 23:57:02 Dom, My Bifrost is the original version. A friend who now has a Brooklyn gave it to me. He hated that I was using a cheapie DAC. To be honest, before the Bifrost I didn't "sit down" to listen to anything other than vinyl. Anyway, it had v2 USB and I went to the Unison USB, which is the last and only upgrade available. Figured since the DAC was free, $180 to upgrade wasn't too bad. To sum it up in one sentence the upgrade was like installing a 3d switch, the width didn't improve much, but the depth was night and day better. Before the upgrade, it sounded like a wide and tall flat surface. Now it's more upfront with good depth. If it gets me a year or so of use, I'll be happy and have time to look at better DACs. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/10/23 at 03:10:24 Sean, Thanks for the info! I thought you had the newer generation like mine. Yes the Unison USB sounds fantastic. When I run it while playing music through Roon, it has so much more dynamic range than going through the optical connection. My Bifrost came stock with Unison USB. My upgrade takes the XLR output board and upgrades it to be fully balanced….along with other improvements. So stupid that they didn’t do it that way from the start, but maybe that was their plan all along, knowing most guys would shell out the cash for the upgrade. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/10/23 at 03:12:20 Sean, Thanks for the info! I thought you had the newer generation like mine. Yes the Unison USB sounds fantastic. When I run it while playing music through Roon, it has so much more dynamic range than going through the optical connection. My Bifrost came stock with Unison USB. My upgrade takes the XLR output board and upgrades it to be fully balanced….along with other improvements. So stupid that they didn’t do it that way from the start, but maybe that was their plan all along, knowing most guys would shell out the cash for the upgrade. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/10/23 at 16:27:43 I got in another order from Mad Scientist Audio of their Black Discus Nano "Cupcakes." I now have one on the power cords entereing all the components and on the XRL cables entering and exiting the ZTPRE preamp. Another little shade of blackness the music comes out of, another bit of sweetening to the high frequencies, another bit of depth to the soundstage. Not a cheap experiment but I'm happy with the results. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kamran on 02/10/23 at 19:26:24 Lon, super interesting — would you mind sharing a picture of this setup? |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/10/23 at 19:37:47 Sorry, I'm photographically challenged, I'm not a picture taker--have no digital camera, don't have a phone that connects to the internet. It's pretty easy to imagine--the discus come with a bit of blu-tac and I put them right on top of the cords where the casing actually enters the IEC connector, and where the wiring enters the XLR connector itself. Here are a few photos from others: ![]() ![]() |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kamran on 02/10/23 at 20:01:57 Thanks, that helps and also answers the question I had of how it actually sticks on. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/11/23 at 14:42:51 Lon, I’m glad the Mad Scientist discs are working out for you and you are getting good results. I saw positive results with the sample, so can only imagine what the full size ones are doing. Definitely not cheap but worth it. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/11/23 at 16:45:13 As I think Will mentioned a month or so ago any changes to sound purity are important. I have a lot going on in that department, but still little incremental changes have cumulative impact. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/11/23 at 17:17:08 Powerful words from Will that are so true. In my old house I was not running the PSAudio Soloist outlets, and my equipment was not on a home run circuit. Now with the Soloist in place on a home run line, I have noticed a profound difference in purity of the sound with everything sounding cleaner and more open. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/16/23 at 21:17:55 The 25th Anniversary Experience seems to continue to be chameleon and shape shifter-like. Today, after sorting through 12AU7 type tubes in the holdings this week (over 50 including all the compatible types!) I settled on an Amperex 6211 for the ZROCK2 and experimenting ended up with every tube in my system being an Amperex except the English 0C2 type voltage regulation tubes under the Monoblock chassises and the power tubes (although I do have a pair of Amperex EL84 I may try later). 7308s in the ZTPRE and the Monoblocks, 5R4WGA and 0A3 in the Monoblocks, that 6211 in the ZROCK2. A very "classic" sounding presentation with warmth and yet punch. I'm really digging it! I wonder if the SEWE300B will offer such a flexible and tunable nature. I bet it will. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/22/23 at 15:14:21 With the density that the 25th Anniversary mods brings to the table it's a fascinating journey that rolling NOS tubes from all around the world brings. I really liked the romantic sound having a nearly all Amperex tube complement in all components brought, but in days I was longing for the specific openness to the sound that the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B bring to the presentation and put those back in. And that sealed the deal for the week for me--great sounds with a better soundstage and a bit more instrumental image detail. This also accomplished by removing the 0A3 and going back to my steadfast Arcturus 0B3. Another 6211, s Sylvania with a D-getter, has been really working well in the ZROCK2 in my audio-visual system, giving a similar signature of openness and instrumental detail. Change one tube and it's like going through a Stargate to another sonic world. It's amazing what these components can and will do. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/22/23 at 16:44:20 Lon….I know for a while you really liked the Amperex Holland Pinched Waist 7062 in your ZROCK2. How would you compare that to the 6211 that you are using now. What do you like more about one tube over the other? My ZROCK2 is still fairly new, but when I’m ready to roll tubes in the ZRock2, I have a number of the Amperex Holland Pinched Waist 7062’s that I bought ahead of time. I do like it in my ZSTAGE in the relaxed position, so no complaints on the sound. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/22/23 at 17:36:25 Dominick wrote on 02/22/23 at 16:44:20:
Hey Dom, I had the 7062 as the ZROCK2 tube for a long time. All that time I was running 6085 tubes with converter bases in the ZTPRE, and generally RCA gray glass 6NS7 in the Monoblocks. Altogether these complements present a big, vivid sound with clear textures and punchy dynamics. When I started re-inserting the 7308s I started to experience a bit more warmth and a slightly more laid-back presentation, which I liked a lot. With 7308 in all spots and the 7062 still in the ZROCK2 there was a great presentation that I enjoyed for some time. The 7062 gave a kick in the arse to the 7308 sound structure but in time I began to feel the whole was topped with a bit of an analytical, tight edge that began to be a bit fatiguing--which I never experienced with the 6085 in the ZTPRE. So. . . I went through all the 12AU7 types and compatible ZROCK2 tubes, and when I got to this Amperex 6211 I eased back in my listening and I've decided that I really like this complement. I'm sure in a week or two things may be different! I love to experiment with differing tube complements. One conclusion I could come from this is that I really like the big sized 12A type tubes such as the 6085, 7062, 6414 et al, they have a lot of dynamic gain and an open clarity. . . I tend to like them when used throughout the components. And the regular sized signal tubes in the 12A family I tend to like together throughout the system. And for some material and some volumes and moods blending them gives a "just right right now" sound to the system. I hope that makes a little sense. The ZTPRE, ZROCK2, SE84UFO3s can take on so many different sonic characteristics with different tubes that there are so many enjoyable complements that can be put together with so many differing tubes. Personal preferences will be taken on trips and examined! If you are enjoying the 7062 in the ZSTAGE you will likely enjoy it in the ZROCK2 as well, having the two 7062 tubes in series in the system may create a great presentation. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 02/22/23 at 21:26:51 Lon, Like you indicated….the 7062 gave my ZSTAGE a kick in the arse for sure! Great dynamics with big sound. But I did notice that as I upped the ZSTAGE gain past 3/4 I noticed the air really blossomed. So when I run the 7062 in the ZSTAGE….I tend like the sound with the front switch in the relaxed position. Right now I’m using a GE NOS 12AU7 from Upscale Audio in the ZSTAGE and it’s dead silent with nice air and it’s crystal clear when pushed. I bought Kevin’s stash and it’s damn good. I also have a NOS RCA 12AT7WA black plate military tube from 1965… I’ve been really itching to give that a try in the ZSTAGE. Since I’m now back in the new house…my system has dramatically changed with the addition of my ZBIT, ZROCK2, new Rega phono preamp, and now my new SE84C+ with full Anniversary mods. Needless to say I’ve been doing a lot exploring lately. I am waiting for a small stash of TFK PCC189’s to come in from Europe, so that will go in the Zen’s input stage, and then once that tube settles in, I’m going to pull the stock tube out of the ZROCK2 and put the 7062 in. I’ll report back ounce that happens. Thanks for your feedback on the 6211’s… I may have to give that a try. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/22/23 at 22:06:30 Yes, my Decware amps and preamps when they had them bias positions are always in the "relaxed" position, always have been for 25 years. Just suits my sources and rooms and I guess my tastes best. Keep me posted! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/24/23 at 16:08:04 Just days later. . . I pulled out the Amperex 0A3 and put in Amperex 0D3 which are a better fit. There's something about 0A3 with the other tubes in the complement that I favor that initially are great to listen to and then begin to fatigue me. There is just a dab of thickness to the sound that I don't adjust to. These 0D3 are quite nicely balanced tonally and are also giving me a bit more of a laid back soundstage with more depth to the sides and center as well. Great tubes! What I would really like to try are Amperex 0B3 tubes of any of the types (short straight, tall straight, bottle-shaped). I have never seen any for sale anywhere or evidence that Amperex Holland ever produced them. I have a feeling I would love them. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 02/28/23 at 15:17:47 Last week looking at 12A_7 type info on the internet I realized I never have tried a 6829 tube type and so I ordered a pair--they are not expensive. Seems almost all for sale now are GE so I got a triple mica GE pair. They arrived yesterday and I stuck one in the ZROCK2 in my main system, and started listening this morning. THESE ARE VERY GOOD TUBES. Warm, but not veiled or slow sounding. A bit of a laid back presentation. All the things I like. I'm also trying a pair of Tung-Sol 5R4WGB rectifiers this week and the 6829 fit right in and are a great complement to these rich sounding rectifiers. Altogether this has elements of the classic tube sound I enjoyed for years with my 1959 EICO amplifier before I discovered Decware, with all the great attributes of speed and dynamics and detail that Decware amps bring. Wow, a great sound for the week, nearing what I expect to find with the SEWE300B later this year. These 25th Anniversary equipped components are so open and "out of the way" that they continue to show the characteristics of every tube, wire, footer and electrical cleansing bit of the system you introduce or remove. A fascinating and involving and hobby that can be a great escape from this f'd up world. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 06/19/23 at 12:58:30 Things keep evolving in my systems. I have three great systems, the main audio being the very best BUT the other two having great qualities as well and fine tuning and tube-rolling really make things better. It's interesting how time and experience can lead one to tuning and experimenting which adds to an experience and knowledge bringing better sound. In my main system right now I am using Amperex 6085 in my ZTPRE with converter bases and that brings the best sound that I have had from that component since I have had it. And a pair of made in Holland 7308 in the Monoblocks that seem like Goldilock's porridge, just right. That is with a recent change in voltage regulation: RCA 0D3 for the power tubes, a change from Arcturus 0B3--and still using 75C1 (0C2) for the input tubes. I can't keep Sophia Electric Aqua 274B out of the Monoblocks as rectifiers. A PS Audio P15 powers all. With my new PS Audio DSD DAC Mk2 all seasoned and sounding fantastic I just have not had a better audio experience. There's a ZBIT and a ZROCK2 with the 25th Anniversary mods with Miflex caps and an Amperex Holland 12AU7 in the signal chain as well, both making a great influence. The HR-1s sing! My headphone only bedroom system has been rejuvenated by newly installed Miflex caps in the 25th Anniversary configuration in my Taboo Mk IV, and by adding a Bottlehead Foreplay III preamp feeding that from my PS Audio DSD DAC Mk1 that is modded and a ZROCK with Jupiter II caps. The Foreplay III is a really interesting preamp with an RCA 0D3 and two Amperex 7062 as the tube complement. I have an early Amperex 6085 (pinched waist, D-Getter) in the ZROCK2 and a pair of Steve's output tubes, a Sophia Electric 274B and an Amperex 7308 in the Taboo. Killer headphone sound with either the ZMF Ori or Oppo PM-1 headphones. A Decware ZLC powers all. And in the living room I am using an Oppo UDP-205 and DVR as a source (with a Wyred4Sound reclocker convering the DVR sound to 24/96) to a ZROCK2 with Anniversary mods with Jupiter II caps and a Sylvania 5963 from Steve, to a CSP3 with the Anniversary mods with Jupiter II caps and a glass resistor that is an amazing headphone amp with a pair of Sennheiser HD800S. The CSP3 has an RCA 5V4 rectifier and a US Amperex 7308 and two French 7308 as the driver tubes. It also feeds a DALAUDIO STUDIO 3886 R3 and the combo powers my first pair of HR-1 so well, a chip amp sounding like a big tube amp with all the CSP3 goodness. All powered by a PS Audio P10. I'm so blessed to have these three great systems with 25th Anniversary features that just give me fantastic sound in three locations, a real boon as my wife is now retired and this gives me options to get more listening (and watching) time in. Decware is a key element in all this audio pleasure. I'm so grateful that I discovered Decware in '97. Wow. . . in a few months or so there will be an SEWE300B to shake things up in the main system! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by HockessinKid on 06/19/23 at 14:20:56 Lon, I don't know how you do it. Continuous tweaking of not one, not two, but three separate systems. You clearly deserve some kind of reward for your commitment to improving SQ and for sharing your insights. As always, you're one of the amazing contributors of insight and knowledge to this forum. Cheers my friend and have a great day. Looking forward to your impressions of the Sarah 300B, you're ahead of me in the que😊. HK |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 06/19/23 at 14:25:44 Thanks HK. Two factors I think shape my exploration into tuning and tailoring: I have time (though it just got less than before as my wife walked off her job and decided to retire) and music is perhaps my biggest interest in life and propels me and the equipment is a very important element to deepening my involvement. This is an anchoring activity in my life and keeps out of trouble. . . for the most part. ;) |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Same Old DD on 06/19/23 at 16:07:45 I have managed to whittle down to just one naysayer, Mrs DD. A life worth living and living well. I tend to agree that music is still an anchor in my life, even though I had abandoned the professional aspects many years ago.. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 06/19/23 at 22:56:46 Thanks to Lon I now have upgraded my preamp and jumped back into the 25th Anniversay experience. My ZSTAGE, which was my first ever piece of Decware gear, was recently sold. I’m now waiting for Lon’s old CSP2+ with the 25th Anniversay mods to arrive this Wednesday. This is a big upgrade and I’m really looking forward to hearing the changes. The only thing left t I have to do is upgrade my second SE84C+ Amp. I had to table this upgrade I order to free up funds for the addition of the CSP2+. I’ll post my impressions in the upcoming weeks. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 06/20/23 at 00:35:25 I was glad I was able to help you and Joe to come to that deal and that it now is the third white chassis component to complete your set up! It's a fantastic preamp, and as fantastic a headphone amp. I know you will enjoy it. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kamran on 06/20/23 at 01:33:22 I second HK’s appreciation of your dedication Lon. Even with time and opportunity, it’s a Herculean task! Hats off to ya! Excited for your new acquisition Dom! Congrats! |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 06/20/23 at 08:05:03 As always Lon your efforts are truly appreciated. I know that the CSP2+ is going to be a great addition to my system, and the all white trio is going to look amazing. Thanks Kamran! Like you and HK said….Lon’s dedication to his 3 independent systems are impressive. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by JBzen on 06/20/23 at 10:07:24 Dom, Your matching white plates got me thinking...more like what was I thinking! Sould have, could have, did not build the clone with one! Cheers on your rig! John |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 06/20/23 at 15:43:22 Thanks John. I have had love for the white SE84C+ Zen amps for a very long time. They were only made for a short amount of time and rarely come up for sale. I had to actively seek them out by contacting members who had them listed in their tag line. It’s been a two year endeavor and now it’s finally complete. Cheers to not having to search daily the Decware classifieds, EBay, USA Audiomart, Canuck Audiomart, and HIFi shark. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 06/23/23 at 07:01:45 Got a chance to fire up the new CSP2+ today for a brief listening session. First off I went through all the steps listed in the manual, and it’s dead silent. After I matched my mono’s with the preamp, I sat and started to listen. First off…there is a big difference between the ZSTAGE and the CSP2+. The ZSTAGE does as advertised…. It adds gain. The CSP2+ adds a lot more gain…. But it added another the textured layer to the sound. Even applying the same voltage output as I did with my ZSTAGE, the CSP2+ added warmth to the midrange making it more seductive, made the highs a bit more crisp, and the bass is more pronounced. I actually found myself backing off my ZROCK2 a bit. In Steve's description…he says the Anniversary mods for this preamp made everything more juicy with blacker backgrounds. Well… he was spot on. By comparison my ZSTAGE felt more sterile and softer. Right now I’m running the stock Decware 5U4G rectifier, a matched pair of the Wathen Cryotone 6N1P’s in the rear, and a single 6N1P in the front [forgot which one I installed…the brand is slipping me right now]. So far I’ve only streamed some music through Roon, and played some CD’s through my Oppo. I’m eager to hear how vinyl will sound, but I wanted to wait until I have some quiet time with no distractions. It goes without saying that the CSP2+ was a great addition, and has elevated my listening experience. I’ll post sore more impressions next week. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by HockessinKid on 06/23/23 at 09:52:50 Dom, The CSP2+ andCSP3 w/ Anniversary mods are truly special to my ears. When you get a chance, try a good 6SN7 smoked glass RCA with adapter in the front position. The added soundstage dimensionality is pretty nice. HK |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Tony on 06/23/23 at 16:23:40 HK suggested: try a good 6SN7 smoked glass RCA with adapter in the front position. The added soundstage dimensionality is pretty nice I recently did some tube rolling that seems to have bumped my UFO25 into a higher level of performance with noticeable improvement in the sound stage. It was recommended that I place a CryoTone 12AU7, which I had in the ZRock, in the input position of the amp. The past couple of evenings have been remarkable as a result. I forgot, however, that at about the same time, I had returned a 6SN7 smoked glass RCA to the front position of the CSP 2+. I will need to investigate if one or the other tube switch resulted in the positive change, or perhaps there is something about how the two work together that results in such a positive gain. The bottom line, however, is that the change is remarkable. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 06/23/23 at 16:40:19 I've been using these same 6SN7 in all three positions of my CSP3 with the 25th Anniversary mods. Great sound--especially with heapdhones. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 06/24/23 at 00:03:54 Lon and Roger, Thanks for the info on the 6SN7 tube. I actually have a Decware 6SN7 that I bought a while ago from a forum member. I do plan to give it a try… need to buy an adapter and then give it a whirl. Thanks, Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kamran on 06/24/23 at 02:09:49 I have a 1943 RCA VT-231/6SN7 Gray Glass and out of the many 6SN7 tubes I’ve experimented with—it’s in my top 3. Just love the romance this tube brings to the table and it has been a mainstay as in input driver in my Had amp for the longest time. |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 06/25/23 at 22:18:55 Mistake and typo in my last post #253. I have a Decware 6N5P Decware tube and not a 6SN7. Needless to say I started digging for some RCA smoked glass 6SN7 tubes My adapter will be here the second week of July, so I have some time. Went on Brent Jesse’s website for more info. Question…out of the smoked glass RCA’s, does anyone have a preference on the short or medium tubes besides Kamran who already posted his favorite. So far I’ve been eyeing up the 6SN7 GT’s. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Tony on 06/26/23 at 00:17:12 Dom, Last time I checked, SSNR had a good supply of 6SN7 smoked glass at reasonable prices. https://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/6/TubesListed_6-5.htm |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Tony on 06/26/23 at 01:42:48 That last link to SSNR for RCA 6SNR smoked glass did not seem to work. Try this one instead: https://www.surplussales.com/Tubes-Sock-Acc/6/TubesListed_6-5.html |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Dominick on 06/26/23 at 06:18:12 Thanks Tony!! The second link worked..I’m checking it out now. Dom |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/11/23 at 18:05:22 All this talk of RCA Gray Glass 6SN7 led me to move a pair of mine from the CSP3 to my SE84UFO3 Monoblocks. Which led me to roll rectifiers and the 12AU7 in my ZROCK2. The new DAC I have keeps seasoning in and impressing me and is leading me to choose different tubes in my complements to take advantage of its clear and smooth nature. So with the 6SN7 and adaptor bases in the input of the Monoblocks I settled on a pair of RCA 5V4G as rectifiers (and I have RCA 0D3 in for the output tubes, and 75C1 as regluation tubes for the input tubes, and Steve's output tubes in the Monoblocks). That led me to a lot of experimentation with tubes in the ZROCK2 and I settled on an RCA 6189. I'm still running Amperex 6085 with adaptor bases in the ZTPRE--that's an amazing tube set I just can't seem to do without. The combination of all these is an amazing tonal balance with some startling 3d details and a great dynamic sense to the presentation.I'm enjoying amazing sound with all types of recordings, which is my main goal. So I expect my SEWE300B to ship soon and upset the apple cart with its new style and character. It's a shame that we're about to have the hottest temps of the year yet for a few weeks--my main system is in the hottest part of the house. If I run the air I can't listen, the unit is so loud. So I'll begin what I do this time of year: run the unit a while, shut it off, listen as long as I can before getting too uncomfortable (Fiona the dachshund is the first to not want to take it any longer) and then repeat for the next session. Is it autumn yet? |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Kamran on 07/12/23 at 02:04:50 Now I don’t feel guilty for wishing fall would come sooner! I thought I was the only one… I’m sort of in the same boat—don’t have air conditioning in my finished basement listening room. We did get two baseboard heaters to keep it warm during the winter and they do get consistent play (no pun intended) during the winter months but it does get really warm in the dead of summer (so much for heat rising up-it seems to accumulate downstairs) and with running a tube amp for too long—things can get really toasty. That’s why I tend not to run the amp all day during summer—only turning it on for a couple of hours prior to my listening session, which typically lasts for an hour and then turning the amp off immedietly afterwards. #firstworldproblems |
Title: Re: The 25th Anniversary Modified Experience Post by Lon on 07/12/23 at 02:23:53 Whew, we're sort of in the same boat. I love winter the most. . .the system sounds best then for some reason. And I feel less guilty at whiling away the hours just listening to music. |
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