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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Glory to 432Hz https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1564550895 Message started by Jeff of Arabica on 07/31/19 at 06:28:15 |
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Title: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 07/31/19 at 06:28:15 Well, I must first credit Steve Deckert for turning me on to the idea of 432Hz and providing the background information to support why this frequency deserves recognition. I've read Steve's white paper on the subject. I also did independent research and perused the many sources of information that contribute to this subject matter. As a result, I purchased a 432 EVO AEON music server. Why did I purchase this server? Well, the name kind of shows its hand. It is a music server that uses a special technique to retune 440Hz music (99.99%+ of all we listen to) to 432Hz. They use a proprietary technique to achieve the retune, so it is not simply done by changing the playback speed or pitch which has shown to produce undesirable artifacts. Pitching is not enougth! Doing so just shifts everything 8Hz lower. But the tempered scale is still 440Hz based! (e.g. A4 is now 432Hz, but A5 is not 864Hz, it's 432Hz + 440Hz). If interested you can read up at www.432evo.be. It is a Belgium company. Anyway, I have had this server in my system for four months. I am able to turn the 432Hz retuning process Off and On at will. The beauty of this feature is in it's ability to convert all digital music sources to 432Hz, including streamed music from Spotify, Tidal, Qobuz, etc. in real time. I have done the A/B/A testing and there is something to this. The 432 EVO server is a high-end music server so even if I did not invoke the 432Hz processing, it is a KILLER server. with just gorgeous sound. Just to put it in perspective, I use (3) discrete linear power supplies to power this server. Each LPS is assigned a very specific duty: (1) to power the server main board; (1) to power the SoTM USB output audio card; (1) to power the SoTM Superclock board that drives the USB card timing. Anyway, there have been some scientific studies done on the effects of 432Hz vs 440Hz audio. Maria Reynold did extensive research on the topic and eventually published a book. Her findings concluded 90% of test participants blindly preferred 432Hz over 440Hz. For the last 4 months, 100% of my digital streaming has been processed to output audiophile worthy 432Hz music and I can unequivocally state that I prefer the processing function enabled as opposed to disabled. If I was to sum up my observations by comprising a single statement, I would say that the 432Hz music drastically reduced my need to skip tracks, turn down the volume, look for a higher-res variant, or accuse my system of aurally violating me. Here is an interesting video on 432Hz that was just brought to my attention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e0Tn2G2jIc&feature=youtu.be I intentionally refrained from making any "knee jerk" statements or proclamations based on the fact that I was genuinely unsure whether or not it had merit. That skepticism has officially been put to reset. There is something to this 432Hz stuff and my experience over the last several months substantiates (for me) what is being claimed by the legitimate players in this arena. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by beowulf on 07/31/19 at 07:47:00 Interesting review Jeff ... really enjoyed it! The 432Hz is something I've always wanted to explore more and the Edge of Wonder are one of my fav YouTube'rs to watch ... all sorts of interesting topics in their videos. Where did you actually buy it and how much? Also, what does it use as an operating system is this a proprietary OS or tweaked Windows, Linux, etc.? Is this a headless system controlled by a tablet or does it have a GUI and an internet browser? |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 07/31/19 at 14:58:25 Hi Beo, I purchased the music server directly from 432 EVO in Belgium. www.432evo.be Unfortunately, they have no U.S. distributors. They use a proprietary version of VortexBox Linux that is modified to best perform using their specific hardware, as well as their 432Hz processing functionality. It uses Logitech Media Server (LMS) or Roon Core (server) and you can switch back and forth between the two. You are able to control it remotely using a computer or tablet. I use an iPad and the Roon Remote app or if running it via LMS, I use iPeng app which has been working quite well. I primarily listen to Qobuz and Tidal but do have a decent local library of hi-res that is stored on the server. I believe this is my end-game music server. The model I purchased, AEON, is pricey at 5000 Euro, but they have their Standard model which also does 432Hz processing for 2500 Euro. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Archie on 07/31/19 at 18:24:04 Jeff, I skipped through the video to get a feel for the subject and I can't disagree with most of it but I don't believe in a conspiracy. Human nature often seeks the lowest common denominator on it's own. Like a negative reinforcement. It can go up too but rising seems to take more effort and human nature is generally lazy. I'm much more concerned with EMF effects since I have less choice in avoiding those. I thought about adjusting my TT pitch control back when Steve was discussing this topic but as you said, it doesn't work, although I'm not sure why. Can you explain that again? |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by jslateiv on 07/31/19 at 19:13:09 I've been intrigued by this for a while as well after reading Steve's paper years ago and recently re-reading again. I've also been looking around at music servers as well. Something to upgrade to and provide more functionality than my current Auralic Aries Mini. Jeff, I notice you are running a DSD Sr.. Understanding that you prefer 432 but did listen alot to the AEON w/o 432, did you make some comparisons between the PS transport and the server into the DSD. I would think they would be somewhat comparable (432 disengaged) since both are streaming from RAM. Am I correct that you version does not have the I2S connection? Has Spotify been implemented in the AEON yet? I saw that it was mentioned. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 07/31/19 at 20:54:14 @jslateiv Yes, I did a fair amount of listening with and without the 432Hz processing enabled. I have not done a direct (scientific) comparison with the DMP transport simply because there are too many variables for it to be of interest to me. The DMP is connected to the DS Sr. via i2S and the 432 EVO is connected via a "data only" USB cable. I will say that with few exceptions, my streaming quality is on par with the DMP. This is a result of optimizing my USB chain to a level that it has reached its greatest potential. If it can be improved in some way, then I would sure like to know about it. I did not get the EVO with the i2s output as it uses a Pink Faun card with resolution limited to 192Hz. So, I went with USB to achieve higher resolution output. And it does in fact have a Spotify plug-in which allows the user to stream their Spotify subscription. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 07/31/19 at 22:05:25 Hey Archie, Totally get it about the non-music related discussions surrounding 432Hz. I just ignored those portions of the video. With regard to the difference in methods in which to retune to 432Hz, let me dig up what I read as it has been while. Ill post up what I find with regard to the 432 EVO method vs. others. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Archie on 07/31/19 at 22:31:00 Terrific. Since going from 440 Hz to 432 Hz is a shift down of 1.8%, my simple brain wants to drop my pitch control that much. But maybe something is non-linear? I don't play enough digital to make that worth while adjusting. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Archie on 08/01/19 at 00:49:58 I did a little reading on pitch change after the recording is made and the consensus seems to be that it is not the same as tuning to the lower pitch originally. So, likely sliding my pitch on my TT wont' give me the proper effect. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by jslateiv on 08/01/19 at 01:45:47 Appreciate the reply and insight Jeff. Was thinking it would probably be pretty close considering how the DSD Sr. operates. I found that most any input I use is really close in sound to one another although I can discern some small differences between them,.. Best! |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 08/01/19 at 05:21:28 And to be 100% honest, I chose the 432Hz tuned guitar solo in that video. Preferences are subjective, but I personally, absolutely adore the 432Hz music this server is spitting out. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 08/02/19 at 23:29:56 A great article on 432Hz tuning: https://soundofgoldenlight.com/432-hz/ |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Archie on 08/03/19 at 01:09:09 Thanks, interesting article. My head spins when I read about mathematical "coincidences" or patterns and I often wonder if there aren't underlying assumptions that self-fulfill. Now I'm wondering why the 440 Hz pitched scale was adopted. There must be compelling reasons considering vocalists and musicians seem to prefer 432 Hz. If this was covered in the article I missed it. It's also interesting that people prefer the 432 Hz scale by such a wide margin. I've read that Rega TTs spin faster than 33 1/3 by design since people like the brighter sound. Although, this could be an urban myth. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Geno on 08/03/19 at 01:58:24 This is my first time hearing of this topic. I was intrigued and went on YouTube and did a listening test, picking between a sample of each. There were 4 sets of samples, and I picked 440 in each one. Does this mean that I’m out of sync with the universe? 🤔 |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Steve Deckert on 08/03/19 at 03:56:04 Orchestral music is often pitched up higher than 440Hz to add a sense of acceleration or energy to the music. I think I've heard it at 444Hz or so, and it works fine. It's the Industrial Age, everything is rush rush, attention span is different, many distractions. It probably markets better in this environment. If we lived on a planet without assholes, there would be no reason to change the pitch from 432 for the reason I pointed out in my paper, unless you just wanted to make money at peoples expense. I think Jeff should bring that bad boy to DECFEST this year and see what happens ; ) Steve |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 08/03/19 at 05:31:59 Quote:
Well, I've got a Decware Pelican case and as you know, I'm willing to travel! There may be some room left in the case for a fine bottle of whiskey as well! |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 08/03/19 at 15:48:15 @Archie Here is an excerpt from the 432 EVO website FAQ section that discusses a little about how simply slowing down the track isn't the ideal manner in which to achieve the retune. Doesn't your method sounds better because it is played slower? NO The trick is to map the A to A=432. When instruments are tuned higher than A=440, slowing down by -1.82% will not improve the sound drastically. One example is the Open Goldberg Variations. We went as far as asking the Open Goldberg Variations team which tuning they used for their sponsored Bösendorfer Grand Imperial, in order to double check our own findings how to retune the Open Goldberg Variations which are a free 24/96 lossless download. Looking at the FAQ, it seems that you can order this piano in different A tunings: "The pianos are manufactured in the factory at a tuning pitch of A443 Hertz, however it may be altered between A440 Hertz and A445 Hertz according to need." We verified that they use the A=443 tuning, so by setting our plugin to A=443 as base frequency, the sound of the piano became even more "Grand". So when an instrument is tuned at A=443, slowing it down by -1.82% will map the A to A=435 This will not sound as good as correctly slowing it down, so A=443 becomes A=432 This is why we added the "speedo" mod. One of our Antwerp customers asks to change the plugin to assume a base frequency of A=441 instead of A=440. This was a fair remark also made by 6moons, so we decided to write this feature. 2 hours of coding and the first proof of concept was working. Users can select the base frequency of the plugin to operate on, from A=440 to A=445. There are even sites for classical lovers to find the A tuning of their favorite orchestra. Most modern pop/rock/electonic/dance/jazz is produced at A=440 Hz, but classical orchestra's tend to tune even higher than A=440. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by donovan on 08/16/19 at 07:10:58 I was listening to a youtube video where the guys from Schiit Audio are interviewed. They say they are working on a retuner project called "The Gadget". They don't specifically say 432Hz but it sounds like what they are shooting for. Discussion of it begins around the 15:00 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUBFtqNpC7U It will be interesting to see what they come up with. At one point the fellow on the right calls it a "pitch puller". Hopefully it does more than that, or else it's no different than a turntables pitch control. edit: found some more info on it. Apparantly they demoed a prototype a few years ago, but I guess it still needs work. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/schiit-gadget-a-magic-box.863285/ |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 08/16/19 at 15:16:42 The Gadget has been in development for 2-3 years. I'm not sure if or when it will ever be released but from what I can tell, it will be designed to retune to C=256Hz (A=430.5Hz). This is another frequency that is supposed to be desirable for listeners. My 432 EVO AEON can retune to many different frequencies. I spent some time listening to 430.5Hz and found it great also and not reliably distinguishable from 432Hz. Both of these frequencies sound much better than 440Hz in my system. |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by donovan on 08/17/19 at 03:11:46 Good night - that Aeon unit looks amazing! Looks like the gold standard for retuning. I'll wait for the Schiit unit due to cost though. Jeff, have you ever heard Stars of the Lid And Their Refinement of the Decline album retuned to 432Hz? Oh man, it's like the heavens are opening right before your eyes! |
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Title: Re: Glory to 432Hz Post by Jeff of Arabica on 08/17/19 at 03:56:57 I have not, but I will :) Thanks for the recommendation! What I love about the 432 EVO Aeon, is it is a world-class music server regardless if re-tuning is of no interest. |
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