Forums https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> how do I know? https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1617905879 Message started by Wavendon on 04/08/21 at 19:17:59

Title: how do I know? Post by Wavendon on 04/08/21 at 19:17:59 I have a pair of Omega 7s powered by a Peachtree Decco amp. I have them in my home office and am really dissatisfied with the imaging of the system. Unless I am seated "just so" they offer little soundstage width or depth. Can I blame the amp (I'm sure Steve might offer this choice) or should I blame Louis at Omega? Or should I start over?  :o Starting over my budget would be $2500 or less, preferably much less. I simply want music to fill the room, without breaking my bank account. Any suggestions would be VERY welcome. Many thanks to the forum for considering my dilemma. Andy

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by HockessinKid on 04/08/21 at 20:37:45 Andy, It's likely your amp and/or your room. I believe the Omega 7's are a monitor speaker placed on stands and have a rear firing port. Is this correct? Do you have equipment or tall furniture in between the speakers? For Omega or any speaker to properly image there should be little in between or in front of  them particularly in line with the drivers. You'll get sound waves from the drivers reflecting off or being absorbed. It can collapse the soundstage. Speakers also need to be pulled out 1-2' from the rear wall if these are rear ported. The Peachtree amps are generally hybrid solid state amp with a tubed preamp section. They simply don't reproduce sound with the same dimensionality of a Decware tube amplifier. You can use virtually any of the Decware amps to drive the Omega's to loud listening levels. What are kind of source equipment are you using? This will help inform recommendations and need for a switching box or preamp. Cheers, HK

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by EdwardT on 04/08/21 at 20:38:56 Do you have enough space to move them around a bit? In my experience the room contribution is enough of a factor to overwhelm or choke the soundstage even with a great amp.

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by Wavendon on 04/08/21 at 20:41:56 I stream only; through a BlueOS streamer and use Tidal HiFi

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by EdwardT on 04/08/21 at 20:50:28 They look really close to the wall for that big rear firing port. I say give them some space so they can energize the air.

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by Geno on 04/08/21 at 20:57:42 Experiment with toe-in also. It can make a big difference.

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by HockessinKid on 04/08/21 at 21:24:05 Andy, Try pulling the speakers out on the rug another foot or so, then experiment with toe in. I found the best imaging with Omegas to point the center of the drivers to just outside my ears. After looking at your picture the relatively high desk with your equipment on top may also be affecting the soundstage. If pulling the speakers out and adjusting toe in doesn't produce better results, try temporarily removing that desk/table and putting the equipment on the floor or a lower table. Doing both will give you a better idea of the Peachtree amp true capabilities and inform your decision whether a Decware amp is needed. BTW, you can't go wrong with the Decware-Omega combination. HK

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by Donnie on 04/08/21 at 22:23:42 Andy, Just as everyone else said pull them out. Now I will also mention that your sweet spot may be very small, you won't get 3D sound all over the room. I can usually only move a foot or two side to side and still get the full meal deal out of any speakers in my room. Play with width and toe in, as well as the distance from the wall.

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by armstdav on 04/09/21 at 04:40:04 I've owned rear ported monitors in the past, and I currently own a Decco. Here's my experience with both. Your first step is definitely to move the Omegas out from the wall and toe them in. My monitors needed to be well away from the rear walls; the Epos ELS-3s needed two feet, and the Von Schweikert VR-1s really liked 3 feet. I would guess your Omegas are most similar to the VR-1. Toe-in helps a lot too; the VR-1s needed less than the Epos because the tweeters had better dispersion, but they both sounded better with toe-in. The Decco is a nice integrated but mine now resides in the bedroom system where imaging isn't a factor and I need more power for my inefficient Zigmahornets. When I tried it in my main system it was easily kicked aside by a Decware SE34.2+, a forerunner of the current Rachael. I moved it to the living room with the Ziggies and it was livable, but when I switched to the more efficient Decware DNAs the grain of the Decco became really evident, so it got replaced with a JAS Bravo 2.3. All that is to say the Decco, in my opinion, will never give you the imaging and sound quality that a good tube amp will provide, be it Decware or any other well designed piece. My third observation is about your digital side. It looks like you have a Node 2i, which I haven't heard but the reviews seem to indicate the DAC in the 2i is only mediocre. I HAVE heard the DAC in the Decco and it borders on terrible. I got a very noticeable improvement in the sound staging and quality when I bought an outboard DAC and bypassed the DAC in the Decco. In my case it was a used Schiit Bifrost, but there are many out there that will definitely beat the Decco and may improve on your 2i also, so it's something to consider. But move those Omegas first and see what happens. You may love the results without spending a dime! David

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by Wavendon on 04/09/21 at 13:12:32 a new DAC? Why didn't I think of that.... What do you guys recommend for a novice? The $100 Schitt?

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by EdwardT on 04/09/21 at 16:37:26 I have the Modi 3+ and it seems like a fine DAC, three inputs so you can select SPDIF, Toslink and USB-C mini. Also has an outboard power supply when you’re not using the USB. If you use a older lightning iPad for music storage you'll also need the Apple photo adapter which then provides a seamless interface.

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by Steve Deckert on 04/11/21 at 23:27:10 It looks like your in good hands, all pretty good advise. Consider hanging an attractive tapestry on the wall behind the table and centered between the speakers. Something at least 5 x 6 feet or so. Made sure it hangs 1 inch away from the wall at a minimum so that it is not touching the wall. This is high-tech diaphragmatic absorption disguised as decoration. This will add focus. Also, the power strip is not helping you. Consider getting a TRIP LITE model ISO-500 isolation transformer to replace the power strip.  It will have four receptacles one one end and a captive power cord on the other end that you will plug into the wall. This will add focus. Also make sure you have the correct pad under that rug. Making the rug diaphragmatic with a specific kind of pad is essential, more than doubling the effect of the rug. I checked google images and 100% of everything that comes up is wrong. It will not work to create a diaphragmatic effect and therefor has little detectable effect on the sound. Here is what the correct pad looks like: And finally if you find an ideal spot for the speakers, put some sand or rocks in a leather pouch and place it on top of each speaker. This will add focus. -Steve

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by Wavendon on 04/12/21 at 14:42:31 Many thanks for your comments... a wise man once said that you should never ask your barber if you need a haircut..........now that you have seen my setup what would you do to improve it? I stream exclusively through the Bluenode streamer, and am not interested in CDs nor LPs (at the moment). The Decco amp is getting on my nerves All my best Andy

Title: Re: how do I know? Post by EdwardT on 04/12/21 at 16:16:24 That Blue Node has excellent bitrate specs, are you using the hardwire or WiFi? You might find the Ethernet line gives you a better response although I’ll admit I haven’t looked into WiFi’s 192k ability. And one of Steve's amps...I just obtained one and the difference in the sound is staggering, even with the wrong (inefficient) speakers. Oh yeah, that strip too. I once had a wise man tell never to plug anything I loved into one of those.

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