Forums
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> What DIY speaker cables are you using? https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1629578654 Message started by canonken on 08/21/21 at 21:44:14 |
Title: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by canonken on 08/21/21 at 21:44:14 I know Decware offers this, and I am sure it is very very nice: https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZSTYX.html Curious what people are using for speaker wire, specifically any fun or interesting DIY projects. Could be as simple as just a good quality standard speaker wire (like by the foot stuff), or something more elaborate (like those projects where you break apart Ethernet cable and braid something)...or ideally something in between (an hour to build, if that). Something I would plan on using with a UFO2 and speakers with 5-way binding posts. I need a third pair of ~8' speaker cables (I am rotating between 3 amps and 3 speakers) and curious about trying something a little different. Thanks! |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Archie on 08/21/21 at 22:53:46 I DYI'd some out of 14 gauge solid silver, soft wire inside Teflon tubing. I'd have gone bigger but the price of silver is definitely a factor. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Duncan Taylor on 08/21/21 at 23:27:04 I like to unroll a 14ga Mundorf copper foil inductor and use the foil. I get 2” tech flex and a roll of what’s called Teflon fiberglass tape (non adhesive) for vacuum sealers. I get the roll that is slightly wider than the copper foil. It sits next to the copper in the tech flex more as a structural support than anything, although it’s nice to have Teflon and air next to the conductor. Run them both through the tech flex, and then terminate like so: cut one end off a qtip and use the stick to start a roll on one corner. You’re trying to roll the foil at an angle so a rolled copper post develops to one side of the foil. Make it thick enough, and you can jam it into an AQ banana connector or Crimp and solder it to Furutech rhodium spades like I prefer. Depending on your location and humidity it won’t last forever, but it is high N OFC and it sounds flat out amazing. Pun intended. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by canonken on 08/21/21 at 23:30:58 Thanks Archie - where did you get the wire? I hear different people say different things about silver vs. copper in the sound. Would at least be fun to try. Duncan, that is interesting, wow! |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by EdwardT on 08/22/21 at 00:20:26 I built two of these GR Research 16 pairs this spring specifically to go with our SE34I.4 and I was impressed that I could hear a difference given the level of my tinnitus. Feeding the cotton rope core into the center was a lot easier than it would seem, the woven wire opens up like a Kellems grip strain relief when you compress it allowing you to feed the core in. It's copper and the resulting wire gauge is about 10 |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by CAJames on 08/22/21 at 01:07:29 Since Steve is nice enough to post the part number of the cable he uses for the ZSTYX in the description and I only need 18" cables I looked online and found a reminder roll of the same cable. Cut it, stripped it, slapped on bananas and made awesome cables in less than 5 minutes. Thanks Steve! |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Archie on 08/22/21 at 01:23:21 canonken, I don't remember the wire source but everything else came from McMaster-Carr. When searching for the wire I didn't go crazy over the number of "nines" but you definitely want soft. I followed a DIY site and they claim there is a sound improvement by going soft. Unfortunately, I think silver is high right now. At the time, six or seven years ago, the 4 pieces of 11 ft long wire were something like $155. They sell it by the ounce. If you search the Forum, a few years back someone made ribbon cables by roll flattening silver bars. It was quite entertaining to read about. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Geno on 08/22/21 at 03:35:27 Hey CA, Is this the right type cable? I could not find the exact wording of what Steve specified. Thanks! ![]() |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by CAJames on 08/22/21 at 04:10:29 It looks right, and the price seems right, but it would be nice if they stated the AWG and/or stranding to know for sure. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Geno on 08/22/21 at 04:21:17 It’s 8awg, but the strand info isn’t shown. That was the reason I asked. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by CAJames on 08/22/21 at 04:40:48 If its 8 AWG then I'm pretty sure its the right stuff. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Geno on 08/22/21 at 05:12:41 K. Thanks. I’ve been using the Duelund 12 awg, and like it a lot, but I may try some of this just for a comparison. If Steve’s been using it as long as he has, then thats a good enough reason for me to try it. I did not realize until this thread that he tells exactly the type he uses. Best, Geno |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by SteveC on 08/23/21 at 04:49:13 The Zstyx link https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZSTYX.html states the MIL number is M22759/1189s This doc shows all the M22759 wire details http://www.cabletool.net/Thermax/36-54.PDF M22759/11-8-9 means /11 means: extruded ptfe, silver plated, 600V, 200 deg C -8 means: 8 awg 133/29 strand -9 means: White color Don't know what the trailing 's' on the zstyx page means. (guessing Silver, which is already indicated by /11) Anyway, /11-8-9 is the same stuff. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Geno on 08/23/21 at 16:05:24 Thank you, Steve! I definitely had no idea what to make of the numbers. Very best, Geno |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by lazb on 08/23/21 at 17:33:10 exce pt Steve has changed to black cover which would be the 0 rather than the 9. In an attempt to make folks not insist on the black covers which apparently were time consuming and a pita to install. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Geno on 08/23/21 at 19:14:04 Thanks for that, lazb. Whenever I order it, I would definitely rather have the black too. Very best, Geno |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by canonken on 08/24/21 at 02:38:26 Thanks! Isn't 8 AWG wire totally and utterly crazy overkill - as in for 10 foot or shorter runs you are so far past any resistance issues? Like hooking up a larger firehose to your home faucet - the flow is not going to increase, at all...or is there something else? Said another way, could you get the same wire in maybe 12 AWG and it would do the same thing? |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by CAJames on 08/24/21 at 02:50:37 Resistance isn't the issue (IMO), all it does is drain a tiny amount of power. It is capacitance and inductance that changes the frequency response and make cables sound different. (Actually, it is really about impedance, but that is more than I want to get into on a message board). But perhaps a better way to look at is different brands or types of e.g. capacitors or resistors sound different even if their electrical values are the same, the 8 AWG "type" of wire sounds better than any other I've tried. Before I found a reasonable amount of the the 8 AWG I actually bought 12 AWG and it didn't sound as good, again IMO and in my system, in 18 inch runs. I made power cables out of the 12 gauge. FWIW/YMMV of course. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Kirk on 08/24/21 at 12:13:09 I am also a GR-Research DIY speaker cable customer. Very happy. Probably the only negative on GR's cables for me are the aesthetics. The white mesh appearance would not be my first choice. Was mulling finding a black nylon sleeve to pull over the cables. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by EdwardT on 08/24/21 at 14:09:36 I agree, I’m all about listening and not showcasing my fancy gear which has made me ponder buying some PET sleeving to cover the white and copper braid. That stuff is a dead simple install and would result in a nice black product. Plus, I’ve used it for years on guitar and keyboard looms and it’s durable. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Dana on 08/24/21 at 22:28:09 According to Jeff at FIDELIUM CABLES both gauge and capacitance don't matter as much as other factors. https://silversmithaudio.com/content/CableTheory/EssexEchoSummary.pdf I was able to actually hear his cables during a stereo meet and they are very clean sounding. $1200 for 10ft cables were both not long enough and out of my price range. Jeff believed that his foil alloy was superior to both copper and silver and had a very compelling argument explaining the physics. What does that have to do with DIY cables? https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/118950-thin-wide-diy-copper-foil-speaker-cable-construction-traps/ |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by 4krow on 08/24/21 at 23:59:25 I really appreciate a thread like this one. I too have been up and down the cable highway messing around with various ideas, but never got around to foil type speaker cables. Litz cabling is another curiosity that I would like to try some day. Right now I have been using Mapleshade cables and like them pretty well. The idea of a very thin insulation strikes me as a good idea. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Palomino on 08/25/21 at 22:58:16 I also did the GR Research DIY wires and they have been my go to for the last year. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by BadWolf on 08/26/21 at 02:35:25 I made mine out of a 10 oz silver bullion bar. https://youtu.be/0OEVTaSCHk4 A much shorter TikTok version of the video - https://www.tiktok.com/@capricart/video/6981538759942671621?lang=en&is_copy_url=0&is_from_webapp=v1&sender_device=pc&sender_web_id=6980087895987193350 I also made a previous pair out of two 10 oz silver bullion bars that I documented somewhere in the forums. I'm very happy with all of them, I haven't noticed any difference between 10 and 20 oz sets. I haven't personally compared them to any high end speaker cables but I'm pretty sure they'd do fine. They sound way better than the basic copper cables I was using previously. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by thethanimal on 08/26/21 at 03:36:37 Does anyone have experience working with Steve’s milspec wire? AC Wire’s website says it’s self-extinguishing and will not solder, so do you just crimp it? I imagine it requires a more robust crimper than my Ace Hardware hobbyist stripper/crimper. I’m considering some for my speaker hookup wire, but would have to figure out the connection to the binding posts and terminal forks to connect to the speaker. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by will on 08/26/21 at 06:44:53 I had no issues soldering the Decware Styx I used, but it was quite good raw connected to posts. I agree with Archie that soft annealed is important for relatively pure 999 silver. I was trying NOS WE, 16 gauge stranded tinned copper for speaker cables (the wire Duelund modeled theirs after) and I was a little surprised at their popularity after trying the WE in my system. Compelling mids for sure here, but the 16 gauge wires were way lean for me, also missing some of the finest detail. Doubling and tripling them progressively improved bass in the balance, but also consolidated the mids, making them overstated and hard. So liking qualities of a single WE wire, I started playing with combinations of wires that would keep a lot of that mid beauty, while bringing out more complete complexity, smoothness, and lows. One of these was solid core soft annealed 999 silver in oversized teflon, and another was 999 soft copper in over-sized teflon. After a number of iterations, they sounded amazing. I also use solid soft silver or soft copper with oversized teflon for replacing some wires in my amps, or for cap lead replacement. UP-OCC silver is more expensive, but my all around fav, having tried VHAudio, Neotech, and some raw/soft UP-OCC silver I put in oversized teflon. Though each are their own thing, they have a nice common theme, and there is no doubt to me the UP-OCC is more refined and complete. I suspect the Ohno Continuous Casting is as influential as the Ultra Pure silver, but whatever, this is a pretty state of the art wire to me, resolving, smooth, and clear while tending a bit warm. But needing a fair bit for 10 foot cables, I tried less costly soft 999, and the wire I got has similar sound qualities, less refined, but still nicely resolving and smooth. These hybrid cables beat my main reference at the time overall and in most ways, a cable that also inspired me to mix wires in the same cable, some Synergistic Research Copper Elements I found used. Those were the last ready made cables I used. Tired of chasing something at more and more expense, I made my own knowing I could adjust them. After a number of experiments with wire sizes, proportions, and blends, seeking the best balances I could get with the different sonic flavors of the three wire types, I was going for the right overall spectral balance, resolution, and speed, while finding an optimal conglomerate gauge. Too big in my experience with conventional round wires, tends to more overstated mids, with darker, thicker, and slower bass. And too small tends lean and bass shy. In my systems this has been the case with all wires and cables I have tried, whether speaker, power, ICs, or hookup wires. Then I found the right balance of twists, not enough leaving the sound softer/less defined and bass looser, and too many twists, too tight, tending to be too articulate, clear and hard sounding. I know from experience that things can always be better (at least so far), but these speaker cables are so complete and balanced I stopped thinking about them, and have not made the second iteration using UP-OCC silver in oversized teflon even though I have had the parts a long time. Anyway, if round silver is something you want to explore, I can say I have not heard two wires sound the same, but I am guessing some of the anti-silver bias out there might come from harder silver that has more impurities in the metal and flaws in the structure, or from sort of standard stranded versions of silver-plated copper wires, also I suspect using harder silver. Some of these can be interesting, but in the end the ones I have heard tend to be too bold and hard sounding so I stopped trying to use them for signal wires. Steve’s silver plated speaker wire, I suspect partly from being really big, so bringing up bass in the balance, and using so many strands tightly packed, has a more balanced and smoother sound to me. But in my systems the gauge of this large, single, round cable was finally too big for me. Also some of the more recent Chinese made OCC copper plated with 6-9s silver can be pretty nice I think. But so far, when I want silver, I prefer soft 999 in my speaker cables, and UP-OCC silver in my ICs, also liking it in many amp signal and power circuits where you use less of it. Not that I have heard it all by any means, but these are the results here after lots of tests. I bought the 999 soft annealed wire by searching those words on Ebay, and after finding the gauges I wanted and checking prices, I ended up buying from jewelry suppliers. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Coyote on 08/29/21 at 20:28:54 4Krow "I really appreciate a thread like this one. " Same "hear" (haha). I changing a lot of components and type in my system so I am not sure I am ready to spend crazy $$ everywhere. I read that silver makes a crispier sound that copper makes a warmer sound. Etc so I think I want a quality neutral sound cable (if that exist) for a reasonable price and I will have months of pleasure fine tuning the sound, and that is after the system runs a few hours to set itself. At this moment I really like the M22759/11-8-0 I am reading about, I need a pair of 12ft speaker cables so that total is about in my price range to! Cheers, a. |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Coyote on 08/29/21 at 20:30:56 Hi Geno, If you go ahead with the M22759/11-8-0 cables would let me know how it goes and how satisfied you are? At this moment I really like the M22759/11-8-0 I am reading about, I need a pair of 12ft speaker cables so that total$ is about in my price range to! Thx, Alain |
Title: Re: What DIY speaker cables are you using? Post by Geno on 08/29/21 at 20:44:42 Coyote, Just when I thought about pulling the trigger on the wire, Steve started raving about his latest wire experiments. Something new to him. I’m waiting to try and find out more about it first. Steve??? Best, Geno |
Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.2.2! YaBB © 2000-2008. All Rights Reserved. |