Post by Geno on 02/27/22 at 19:22:37
Dammit. I don’t know why that link isn’t going to the right place, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat…
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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> Vinyl >> Technics SL-1200GR https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1635265031 Message started by Dr3wman on 10/26/21 at 17:17:11 |
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Title: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 10/26/21 at 17:17:11 Does anyone have any experience? I am still on the hunt to replace my Rega P1 and have thought it might be fun to go the direct drive route, and at the same time have an absolute classic name/model. I'd likely pair with an Ortofon 2M Bronze, or Nagaoka MP200. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 10/26/21 at 18:11:22 Funny you should ask! lol I've been posting about the Technics 1200 TTs here for a while now. I started with a fully KAB modified 1200MkII and graduated to the 1200G. These are exceptionally fine TTs. The 1200GR fixed some of the original 1200 "flaws" and the 1200G took it to a whole nother level (although the G preceded the GR). The speed of these is dead accurate and the noise can hardly be measure. They are a joy to use given the absolute simplicity. And don't discount the value of the built-in dustcover. KAB has a few addons such as the tonearm fluid damping that are very worthwhile. KAB is definitely partisan but Kevin's site is a good source of info. Here's a link to some info/articles he posts. http://kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 10/26/21 at 19:13:23 Archie - That is good to know about KAB. I had heard about KAB, and wondered about the tone arm fluid damper and how much benefit I would actually see/hear. Does the silicone fluid attract dust? How much upkeep is necessary ? Andrew |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 10/27/21 at 00:46:11 Somewhere on his site Kevin has either a review or a link to a review of the fluid damping. People who can hear things better than I think it's quite good and well worth while. As far as dust, after many years with the same fluid I had very little noticeable dust in it. Keep in mind, the 1200s have a DC and I use mine always. I've never heard a difference in sound with, without, up or down and even with a damping weight placed on the DC top when down. Before I made my ring clamp, with just the fluid dampener I could track any warp, no matter how bad. When I was making the peripheral clamp I asked Kevin about it vs the damper and he hands down said the damper was more important. I use both. BTW, getting a ring to fit the 1200 takes a bit of effort, especially while retaining KAB's damper. I had to modify it slightly to get it all the clearances right. The G and GR (I think) come with better footers than the original 1200s but additional isolation, IMO, is still a good idea. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 10/27/21 at 00:51:32 That is great to hear. The GR appeals to me on so many levels. I've got to get on the wait list for one... I'd imagine it will be at least 4/5/6 months..........even at that, it will still arrive before my Torii V........HAHA! |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 10/27/21 at 01:12:40 When I bought my G a few years ago I called every seller on the vendor list until I found one -- and got a discount. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 10/27/21 at 02:07:02 Is the vendor list on the Technics website? It seemed to offer pretty limited info… most B&H… Of course Google can lead me to many other retailers, but a list is always handy. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 10/27/21 at 02:22:14 For the G, anyway, the list is fairly short. Maybe they opened the GR up to more vendors? A quick search turned up this in stock. ;D https://www.musicdirect.com/turntables/Technics-SL-1000R-Reference-Turntable-System |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 10/27/21 at 02:25:42 I’ve encountered it on at least 10 websites, from mom and pop to big boys like Crutchfield, Hifi Heaven, etc. All back ordered. Im not ordering until years end, so I have time to explore options. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 10/27/21 at 06:52:32 I think this is where I bought my 1200G They seem to have the GR in stock -- at least it lets me put it in my Cart with no OOS or BO warning. https://www.gcaudio.com/products/technics-sl-1200gr-direct-drive-turntable-silver-finish/ |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 10/27/21 at 21:53:10 Fantastic! Thanks for the link! |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 11/15/21 at 22:03:51 Archie - Just bought one from the site you linked me to. I liked the guy I called to ask about the supply status. I am on a short waiting list, but I am excited. Plus I'd imagine it'll be shorter than the Decware list I am on for my Tori V. HAHA! Almost went with a Planar 3 instead, but decided to stop faffing about and buy what I really wanted (Cry once). |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 11/15/21 at 23:23:03 Awesome! I think you'll be really pleased with the TT. Check out the KAB arm damping if you haven't already. I use a Mitchell Rega clamp with mine. They are too pricey for what they are but they work really well with the Technics. The Rega clamp is preferred to the standard clamp since the 1200 spindle is relatively short -- especially with heavy vinyl. I also replaced the stock mat with a Herbies mat. That's another good (but not required) tweak. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 11/16/21 at 23:44:38 Archie, Do you think I'd see any benefit from sending my 1200GR directly to Kevin at KAB for modifications? Will there be many offered at this stage? The tone arm damper of course and maybe the Isonoe suspension footers , but I may also reach out to Kevin and see what he suggests. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 11/17/21 at 00:20:14 Those are both things you can add yourself. The damper clamps onto the arm gimble and the feet just screw into the same fittings that the stock feet do. One thing that he offers is the tonearm re-wiring and the inner damping tube. I doubt the wiring would be worth the expense but the arm damper sleeve might be good to have. However, you'd have to rewire the arm to insert the tube. My solution was to get some thin-walled surgical tubing and put it on the outside of the arm. It was a little challenging to put the tube on but it cleared up the single resonance identified in the 1200G arm. The 1200GR has several spikes. Without damping I think every arm will have some resonance somewhere. There are Internet references to applying heat shrink tubing to the arms and I did just that on my 1200 Mk2 arm but Kevin doesn't think this does any good and I tend to agree given my experience with the latex tube on my G. The stock feet may be pretty good. I don't know how the GR feet compare to the Mk2 or G though. The Iso-noe are markedly superior to the stock Mk2 but the G feet are probably equivalent or better than the Iso-noe. When I bought my Mk2 (from Kevin with tons of mods) he didn't recommend the Iso-noe footers until I could see how the table was in operation first. I eventually bought a set years later but only for "insurance." It's probably worth a call to ask him about some of this. I'm sure by now that he's very familiar with the GR although he still seems to cater to the Mk series. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 11/17/21 at 21:37:37 All great suggestions! I think I may live with the deck for 6 months before making any changes, just to get used to it, and its sound. I see you have an Ortofon headshell, I'd been contemplating the Yamamoto HS-4 carbon as an optional replacement. I assume you must be satisfied with the Oroto. I think I have decided on a Nagoka MP-200 for a cart. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 11/18/21 at 01:28:18 In general you have a good plan. With my G I played around with feedback and found a problem so I fixed it with the tubing. Granted, to find the problem I had to artificially induce it at 100% gain. The stock HS is good and has azimuth adjustment which is really nice. The problem I have with the Technics HS though is that my cartridges have a nub on top which is supposed to sit on a flat surface. The Technics HS has a recess in it that defeats this. I do like the Ortofon HS but they too have issues. I feel like they are too heavy so I drilled holes in mine to reduce the weight. They also cause the cartridge to ride higher than the stock HS which throws off the height adjustment. I made shims so that my cartridge now corresponds closer to the tonearm height adjusting ring gage. Without the shim I couldn't lower my cartridge enough to level the tonearm. I don't believe in exotic HSs either way. That looks like a fine cartridge but before you decide, check out KAB's Concord. I loved mine before I went to Moving Coil. I have both the STY30 and STY40 and I don't recall hearing much difference on my Mk2 TT. https://kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 11/18/21 at 02:43:08 I've been intrigued looking at the KAB options. The Reloop Concord Black Styl 30, and the Super OM Styl 30. I assume you'd point me in the direction of the first one. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 11/18/21 at 02:44:42 The Fritz Geiger stylus seems to be pretty great. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 11/18/21 at 05:18:59 I think Kevin told me that the original Concorde was the OM in a unibody shell. He also claims that the OM40 may be better than the Ortofon 2M Black. If I were to go with the 2M Black, I'd get it in the unibody too. It makes setup and alignment automatic and permanent. Also fewer parts connecting to parts. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/26/22 at 17:47:25 On my Technics table, I had been using the Concorde cart with a Sty 40 for a few years, and thought it sounded great. Also, a few years ago, I picked up a Soundsmith Carmen MKII, and liked the sound, but the output was a bit lower than the Concorde, and I had hum issues that were aggravating, so I stopped using it. I recently changed my phono stage setup, and went back to the Soundsmith, and using Steves quality analogy on improvement, the Carmen has given me a solid 30% jump in quality. So much so that I just ordered a lightly used Soundsmith Aida MKII and look forward to its arrival. For me, Soundsmith is the real deal. Geno |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 02/26/22 at 18:10:59 I’ve been really intrigued by Soundsmith carts, and really like the idea of a smaller company. My turntable is still backordered. Galen added me to the list in November, but doesn’t have an eta for them to arrive. Looks like my homework today will be more Soundsmith research! |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 02/26/22 at 19:21:34 I have considered the Carmen MK-II in the past- it would definitely max out my cartridge budget but might be worth it from the principle of “cry once”. The retipping costs through Soundsmith are pretty reasonable as well. With my PS Audio Stellar phonostage, it would lhopefully play well with the Carmen. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/26/22 at 21:31:32 I think you’d be very happy with the Carmen. Check around the internet for the best price. I got mine from the elusive disc site a few years ago for a pretty nice discount. https://elusivedisc.com/search?search_query=soundsmith Best, Geno |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 02/26/22 at 22:38:20 Keep in mind, with the 2mV+ output, you'll likely need a boost if you're using a ZP3 or ZP3 level phono stage. The re-tipping option is important. To rebuild my MC carts costs as much as I paid for the cart. I wonder if Soundsmith would retip with a "better" profile when the time came? |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 02/26/22 at 22:42:22 Archie, I currently use a PS Audio Stellar phonoreamp. Gain: 60dB, 66dB, 72dB Input loading: MC: 60Ω, 100Ω, 200Ω, 47KΩ, Custom 1-1KΩ I think that should work?? |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 02/26/22 at 23:00:49 That looks good. The ZP3 is about 42dB and really underpowered since most Decware amps need 2 volts to reach full power. I think with a 5mV input the ZP3 only puts out around 1 volt. You'll have to see whether the higher gains give any distortion. I have a inexpensive NAD PP1 that has both MM and MC settings but the higher gain MC setting really doesn't seem to work well. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/27/22 at 00:01:07 According to the website, retipping for the Carmen is $200. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 02/27/22 at 00:30:44 Geno, Do you happen to know if they retip other makes of cartridges? It'd be nice if I could get a new needle on my Ortofon Jubilee (one spent, one in use and one in the bullpen). Ortofon rebuilds but they only do a whole new motor, cantilever and diamond. About $1200! |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/27/22 at 01:04:05 Archie, Here is the link to their retipping page. https://www.sound-smith.com/services/cartridge-rebuilding-retipping Geno |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 02/27/22 at 02:09:38 Thanks Geno. I sent them an email with my question since their standard service didn't exactly cover what I'd like. I'm guess less than half of Ortofon which is better than throwing the cart away. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/27/22 at 15:32:49 Archie, Keep us posted what Soundsmiths response to your email is. Are you just wanting a retip, or a new cantilever too? It looks like they do both to any cartridge, but I’m not sure if there are limits to certain makes/models. Best, Geno |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 02/27/22 at 18:52:35 When Ortofon does a job they replace everything but the shell so you really get a brand new cartridge. That's how I bought my Jubilee's so "cheap." Less than $1200 for what is essentially a Cadenza Black ($3000). Since they want more than I paid originally, I'm looking for an alternative. I'd rather no one goes inside the cartridge so I'm hoping SM can just replace the diamond on my existing boron cantilever. They offer a "fine line" stylus but I don't know how that compares to the Shibata profile that's on the Jubilee. The Jubilee uses pure silver windings so the less SM would have to do the more it should stay a Jubilee and not become a franken-cart. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/27/22 at 19:13:23 I spend some time on Audiokarma, and posed this question. It seems that this dude on eBay is well regarded, so it might be worth getting in touch with him too. See below. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/27/22 at 19:22:37 Dammit. I don’t know why that link isn’t going to the right place, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat…
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/27/22 at 19:51:27 Got another response about same fella: 
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 02/27/22 at 20:23:24 Thanks Geno. I stumbled around the Internet a bit and ended up emailing Andy with http://www.phonocartridgeretipping.com/index.html |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 03/07/22 at 23:52:05 Archie - You had indicated you had a Herbies mat on your 1200 - do you recall the thickness? On the Funkfirm website - they offer one for the G/GR, the APM mat that i 7mm that they say is somehow better suited to that particular turntable than thinner mats are...something having to do with correct VTA adjustment. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 03/08/22 at 00:56:22 I have a Way Excellent II mat 3mmX292. The 1200G stock mat is 1/8" whereas the 1200MkII mat is 1/4". For the Ortofon headshells I use, a thicker mat would be nice for VTA but the 1200G spindle isn't very long and with heavy LPs a thicker mat would interfere with my Rega clamp. My guess is that the GR spindle is similar to the G. My inclination is to stick with the stock mat thickness. I did look at my correspondence with Audio Lab and they mentioned a ridge at the edge of the platter so a 285mm mat would be needed. The G platter is completely flat but if the GR platter has a ridge you may need to consider this. Audio Lab said the mad needs to sit flat. (Not sure if you have a G or GR.) BTW, Audio Lab recommended the 4mm mat but I over ruled them due to the short spindle. Good mat size info if you haven't seen: https://herbiesaudiolab.com/collections/turntable-mats/products/way-excellent-ii-turntable-mat?variant=12672063242295 |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 03/08/22 at 01:38:21 I will have a GR once it arrives at GC Audio. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 03/08/22 at 02:22:00 You may want to wait and see what the platter and spindle are like before getting the mat then. I think the Mitchell Rega clamp is a good thing to have too. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 03/08/22 at 06:52:22 BTW, I have an update on the Jubilee MC cart that I sent in to be serviced. I sent it to Andy Kim of Needle Clinic in California. He installed a new cantilever and diamond and returned it the same day he received it. I paid for what I thought was his top service -- Boron cantilever and a Shibata tip (what I originally had) but he informed me that he upgraded to a sapphire cantilever and a finer diamond which is his best. With shipping both ways I paid about $470. He gifted me the upgrade but said it's a $700 to $900 service. I'm not familiar with sapphire as a cantilever but Ortofon does use a diamond cantilever on their $12K cart. I should have the cart in a couple days and I'll give a listen. I'm curious to see if I hear improvement. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 03/08/22 at 16:45:23 Archie - Can't wait to hear about the Jubilee. I get to live vicariously thorough you. I'll eventually wade into the pricier cartridge waters, Geno has spoken highly of Soundsmith, but I will likely be starting in the $500-700 range as my first cart with the GR given that I want new speakers in the next year or two, and that will be 5K on top of the 4.5k for the MKV, and outlay for the GR. My wallet is smoking... ;D |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Archie on 03/09/22 at 06:11:35 I tried out my retipped Jubilee tonight with a few very familiar LPs and I switched back and forth with another "stock" Jubilee that has about 1 year on it -- plenty of life left. If I really could do a blind test I doubt I could tell them apart. But knowing which was which, I give the edge to the retipped cart. Possibly a bit more "air," whatever that means, and more resolution. But if true, then just a tad. No real difference in practice. So, I can't unequivocally endorse a sapphire cantilever upgrade but I can enthusiastically recommend the Needle Clinic for quality, cost and especially turnaround. I never even got an email back from Soundsmith and I read they are backed up 6 months. From this experience, I wouldn't waste my time with them. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Dr3wman on 06/15/22 at 23:22:38 Thanks for all your advice Archie, and Geno! 7 months after ordering, my GR arrived. I am having a Dynavector 10x5 MKII fitted to it. Very excited to hear the difference from my Rega P1/Ortofon BLue. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 06/16/22 at 01:22:14 Congrats! Man, you have really stepped up your phono game. A huge leap from where you were. Keep us posted on how it sounds going forward. Best, Geno P.S. Archie, if you’re out there, please come home. I miss your input. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by effluviography on 02/16/23 at 02:46:31 Any updated thoughts on the Technics SL-1200GR? My Pioneer PLX-1000, which I quite liked, bit the dust last week, and I'm looking to stay in Direct DriveLand but less than 2k. Can get a good deal on a GR as an educator through B&H, so thinking it is my best bet. Anyone's thoughts would be welcomed. I'll be using an Ortofon 2M Black on it. Cheers. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by effluviography on 02/17/23 at 23:02:32 Well, I ordered the 1210GR - couldn't resist the black. My other turntable only died a week ago, but I miss listening to vinyl - and the lifeless brick of the PLX-1000 mocking me wasn't helping. I'll let y'all know how it goes once it arrives next week. And the B&H's educator discount is something - 24% off of retail for a lot of products, including the 1200gr and 1200mk7, though curiously not the Technics SL-1500. And paired with their credit card, no tax. Cheers - Scott. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by chapsjon on 02/18/23 at 00:12:14 Great! I have an SL-1200MK3D and think it sounds fantastic. The ability to easily swap head shells/ carts is a great benefit. Additionally, the combination of torque and speed stability are miles better than my much more expensive well regarded belt drive turntable. So much so, that I sold it. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by effluviography on 02/23/23 at 06:40:47 I got the Technics SL-1210GR on Monday and have been listening the past couple of nights since I got it set up. Yowsa, that was an improvement from the Pioneer PLX-1000. Still doing some setup tweaks, but it is definitely a step up in quality and sound quality. I'm using the Ortofon 2M Black and will probably stay with that for now, but may look into trying another cartridge in the same price range later this year. I didn't plan on upgrading to this table, but now that I have, it seems like money well spent. Cheers - Scott |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/23/23 at 12:43:04 Congrats! That is one awesome table. |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Same Old DD on 02/23/23 at 14:44:38 Agreed and I wish I had one that worked. How do you guys keep these Technics going? I have a 1200 something and a 100 something (not the modern reference item) that have both stopped spinning over the years? You just send them in to be overhauled and upgraded when this happens? |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by Geno on 02/23/23 at 17:16:21 Hi DD. Get in touch with KAB Electro Acoustics, and get a quote from them, for doing the available upgrades they offer, for Technics TT's. https://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/ It will make the table better than it has ever been. Best, Geno |
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Title: Re: Technics SL-1200GR Post by effluviography on 03/13/23 at 09:21:58 Such a good table and cartridge combo. It's making my digital end seem sub-par. Geez, you fix one thing and you break something else. Amazing analog side now. Very happy with it. Now to tweak the digital side and the room a bit. What problems to have :). Cheers - Scott |
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