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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1661281456 Message started by Dana on 08/23/22 at 20:04:15 |
Title: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Dana on 08/23/22 at 20:04:15 Retirement has afforded me a lot of time to explore stereo options. I've never seen this before. An external tube rectifier. HiFi Cave review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ldwtuyWLq0&ab_channel=HifiCave Space Tech super tube rectifier http://www.thebestamp.com/Accessories/Super_Rectifiers.php |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/23/22 at 22:39:55 Dana. Thanks for posting this. What a cool idea to use nice power tubes for a rectification circuit. I wonder what all is going on in there? The Hifi Cave review recordings are ridiculously bad through my headphone setup, but impressions from the cave man quite impressive. Interesting. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Kamran on 08/24/22 at 00:40:22 Loic started as a collaborator with Thomas and Stereo and later started his own channel. He’s good at it and recently posted a super positive review of the MK5. He’s also a big fan of OB speakers and Lii Audio F15 drivers, though he customized his build a bit. I was not familiar with the concept of an external rectifier until yesterday and was wondering if other members had any experience with it? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/24/22 at 02:52:32 ![]() Very interesting. . . . |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 08/24/22 at 03:20:37 Quote:
Seriously. I don't get it, what does the rectifying? Is it a solid state rectifier with a power tube buffer? I looked all over the site for an explanation but I couldn't find anything. Did I miss something? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/24/22 at 03:54:52 Ok this really turned me off…..the vendor has this idiotic hippie hipster jack-assed statement at the bottom: “Save the earth and save yourself, be a vegetarian and keep enjoying music for a long long time !!” W…..TF Unacceptable. Effin’ mo-ron. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Dana on 08/24/22 at 04:10:29 But how does it sound? The only thing that really matters to HIFI |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/24/22 at 04:15:23 Everything matters. The big picture matters even more than the small one in the brain. They are interesting devices. Hats off the the designer/engineer(s). But screw the shit for brains statement which is utterly offensive and beyond that, highly problematic. It matters. Principle matters. And dumb hippie shit ruins everything it touches. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Kamran on 08/24/22 at 04:36:51 I just love this forum. Also, mental note to self “Don’t ever say hippie stuff to Brad” Namaste |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/24/22 at 05:18:36 Thank you for being the person who always brings everyones attention to all the stupid shit here on this forum. You always seem to be neck deep right in the middle of it. Everyone needs a purpose in life. Its like a given, Stupid shit appears and there you are. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/24/22 at 06:19:58 Tough guy reply aside, you’re very welcome. I’m glad for your thankfulness. The rest is nonsense. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Dana on 08/24/22 at 08:05:48 I'm not sure you quite know the meaning of utterly offensive. Benifits of vegetarianism doesn't even approach the bar, Hate spewed in the name of self rightouness....BINGO. AND I QUOTE "Effin’ mo-ron." |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Paul2 on 08/24/22 at 12:10:57 Plus one ^ |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/24/22 at 12:12:06 The benefits of vegetarianism isn’t the problem but I knew you wouldn’t get it either. The blind spot screams the obvious. Disappointing, but not unexpected. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/24/22 at 12:17:21 The devices look like fun, but if you have mono blocks or a dual mono amp, you would need to buy 2 of them. Ouch. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/24/22 at 12:59:57 The Height Of Audio Phoolery |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by jec3504 on 08/24/22 at 13:48:51 This product sure does promise a lot. Careful BicycleJoe Lo-Fi according to the Forum moderator insulting other members can get you banned. Quote:
When I was four a wise man told me "Never trust a hippie". Thanks Brad needed a good laugh this morning. Peace and Love, Joseph |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Mannytheseacow on 08/24/22 at 14:56:52 "Careful BicycleJoe Lo-Fi according to the Forum moderator insulting other members can get you banned." No worries! When you get kicked off you just sign up again with a different name. Isn't that right? Lol. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by jec3504 on 08/24/22 at 15:06:57 LOL Mannytheseacow, Think the moderator can ban your I.P. address. Guess that could be worked around. Hate to see anyone kicked. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/24/22 at 15:09:24 Though potentially meant for a different thread, thanks Lon for nudging this thread back toward music rather than socio-political rubbish that has nothing to do with our musical quests! It would be cool to see the inside of one of these rectifiers boxes. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/24/22 at 15:16:59 I'd like to see the insides as well, and would like to know more about the operation of the biggest and baddest one. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Dana on 08/24/22 at 16:07:10 Oh I get it. This is a thread about innovation like the ZRock. CAJames gets it. he put forth an idea about how it could work. You owe me and the Decware community an apology. You are hijacking my thread, like what the Qaedat al-Jihad did to airplanes. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/24/22 at 16:14:03 My Audio Phoolery comment applies to the ONLY $1000 rectifier circuit Direct order price for regular Aluminum top / bottom and plexiglass chassis STR-104-Mk2 C$880 [US$ 792 only!] / STR-104-Mk2-Super C$1130 [US$ 1017 only!] |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/24/22 at 16:49:29 The prices caught me by surprise too just thinking about rectifiers. And though rectifier changes are big time in my setup, the Hifi Cave guy's comments made the sonic effects sound like way more than a rectifier. Along with options for a range of intersting tubes that are not made as rectifiers, but well loved, like CAJames, Dana, and Lon pointed to, it appears to be more than a straight forward rectifier circuit. So guessing it might be rectification with heightened lucidity and dynamic hits beyond great rectifiers alone (why I would love to see an internal pic).... Anyway, seems to me, from this limited information, like it might feel more like some of Steve's pre stages musically. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Paul2 on 08/24/22 at 17:11:27 I expect that we will hear more about the product. In my case I'll have to hear reviews from folks (that I trust) on this forum. It just might be the cats meow, or more reptile lubricant. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 08/24/22 at 17:50:01 I'm intrigued by his 300B SE amp with balanced inputs. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/24/22 at 17:58:47 Perhaps we might one day learn Steve's opinion on these and how they might interface with the Decware components. It might be the cat's meow for the Sarah amp. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Same Old DD on 08/24/22 at 18:24:06 tempest62 wrote on 08/24/22 at 04:15:23:
Want a big picture perspective, Brad? Every hostile vegan type is fooling themselves from the start. Ever wondered what any plant that shows chlorophyll to the sun eats? Sugar conversions from the sun, but ... it takes more than the sun to get there. Well, it's meat they eat mostly, whether in the form of worm or larval insect carcasses, bacterially processed bacteria colonies (the war is still going), reconfigured mammal carcasses, bones, fibers or collagen products of long dead animals, it's still meat. It takes several elements to make chlorophyll work and the abundance is from decaying animal matter. Not the thick bloody rich, rare steaks I prefer, but all the plants all around us eat meat, too. If you eat plants, you are still consuming the meat of things that once had lips and faces and bones, in most cases. Relax, pal. Those hippy types are just showing another side of just how little they actually know about Big Picture things. Get a grip, then let it go. ;D |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Same Old DD on 08/24/22 at 18:34:06 So how does this work, guys. You have part of your power supply remote and tube driven. I have a couple of older products with remote power supplies and there are reasons. Someone mentioned solid state rectifying and tube something, but why would you need two rectifier systems for one power suppliy? What is this? Anyone have anything to add? Not much to the articles. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/24/22 at 23:05:19 Quote:
From him I understood it is truly UNBELIEVABLE. Impression were Impressive ? got it. I understand completely? Personally my impressions of the caveman is he doesn't have much to add except meaningless adjectives. Where his first test he ran it through Bluetooth, his second time played an MP3. $UPREME $UPER DUPER$ My Impressions of the STR-1003 Supreme Super Tube Rectifier is add in the price of A pair of Western Electric 300B tubes and it costs 5K, IT IS NOT a bargain Direct order price C$4,080 for regular chassis [US$ 3672 only!]" Remember the Zen DESIGN philosophy Steve likes to have parts left over when he does a design, NOT add TWO more chassis AND a longer signal path to his design. PS Psvane is derived from Shuguang. LINLAI is a derived from Psvane. It is no surprise to see some similarities across their tube offerings, since the engineers are hopping from one employer to another. Each brand has its own core offering: More info https://premiumvacuumtubes.com/who-is-linlai-tubes/ ![]() |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 08/24/22 at 23:34:44 Quote:
Where do you see two rectifiers? I see power tubes. This box replaces the rectifier in your amp so there must either be a solid state rectifier in the box or somehow he hijacks power pentodes to do rectification, which means he knows way more about tubes than I do, and probably all of us put together. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Dana on 08/25/22 at 00:35:29 CAJames you're probably right. In the HIFI Cave video he showed an option to bypass the tubes with a switch. So it's a tube rectifier buffer??? Peoples minds are amazing. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Same Old DD on 08/25/22 at 01:29:23 Thanks, CAJ. I'm mainly looking for the benefits and trying to understand the Why and How. But I need the What, first. Everyone knows more about audiophilia than I and most know more about internal electronics regarding tubes, so forgive the "childmind" questions please. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 08/25/22 at 01:41:36 I think I want to change my answer. Now I'm guessing this is basically an external tube regulated power supply. So instead of feeding the power supply in the amp the high ripple DC output from the rectifier you feed it with super smooth tube regulated DC from this box. So the amp's PS has almost no work to do, and the power that hits your tubes is double extra filtered. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Yakatak on 08/25/22 at 06:00:19 The model of the unit Loic is "reviewing" is a STR 1001 MK2. This model is not listed on the Space-Tech Laboratory website. Must be a prototype? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/25/22 at 11:02:13 CAJames wrote on 08/25/22 at 01:41:36:
That analysis makes sense, thanks for sharing. His "subwoofer synthesizer" also looks interesting. If it actually works as advertised I think it would be an amazing thing in my system. Sure is expensive though. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 08/25/22 at 11:11:26 I was thinking on the same lines CAJames. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Same Old DD on 08/25/22 at 12:45:49 That does make more sense, CAJ. Thanks. But, Lon, subwoofer? The music you listen to mostly has no sub bass content, or rarely ever did. I don't know if you're joshin' a little or if your hat's on too tight. ;) |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/25/22 at 12:48:22 I have bass and sub-bass issues in my room that the ZROCK2 helps with. (I don't always chronicle what I listen to and I do listen to a bit of organ music that I think would benefit as well as some other). I can't do room treatment. It would be fun to play around with this device, but I won't be able to afford it so it's a moot point. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Same Old DD on 08/25/22 at 13:17:35 Gotcha. I HAD to make the hat joke though. I listen to organ music as well, but rarely post about it. I have some nice releases, but it is almost like my secret love of bagpipes. I generally keep it to myself because there does not seem to be very much of that blood flowing these days. My way of being a gentleman. ;D ZRock is at the top of my list, when things settle a bit. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Earthbound on 08/25/22 at 13:40:05 Interesting claim that the entry level makes 30%-80% improvement and that gets higher as you go up. Entry level at $1100 or so isn’t too bad. Could you test how effective this is by using the MK5 or mono blocks? I assume since they have a left and right channel you would need 2 of these things, one for each side. Could you hook just one up and try to see what that does for that side? Some big claims made. Would love to hear Steve’s input. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 08/25/22 at 15:41:06 Quote:
Indeed. Note that you get a 15 day "trial" where you can return it for your money back less 10%. So I nominate you to try it out ![]() ![]() ![]() In other news I think I'm going to buy his (used) balanced 300B amp. So that will be fun to compare to my UFOs. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Earthbound on 08/25/22 at 16:29:49 Well thank you. I’ve never been nominated for anything before!😂🥳 If you can get Steve to put me to the front of the list for the MK5/zma (not sure which one yet), I will buy one tomorrow! Or 2 I think! |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/25/22 at 16:50:08 Nice move on the 300B. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/25/22 at 18:31:06 Quote:
Now that really sounds interesting |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/26/22 at 00:51:31 In response to will's phrase: "impressions from the cave man quite impressive. Interesting." From BicycleJoe Reply #29 "From him I understood it is truly UNBELIEVABLE. Impression were Impressive ? got it. I understand completely? Personally my impressions of the caveman is he doesn't have much to add except meaningless adjectives. Where his first test he ran it through Bluetooth, his second time played an MP3. ..... Remember the Zen DESIGN philosophy Steve likes to have parts left over when he does a design, NOT add TWO more chassis AND a longer signal path to his design." I am with you, these recordings for system input, and recordings of the room sound, are a distraction. And for me the same with his style of presentation. But he has been one of the folks Thomas & Stereo uses to test gear Thomas is reviewing, Thomas apparently trusting his listening skills, experience and system/room. I get the impression Thomas is pretty real, and his using this guy's setup and discernment tends to point to some credibility for me. Also, the few I have seen, the hifi cave guy with Thomas, or Thomas conveying hifi cave guy's impressions to broaden our view beyond Thomas', his comments tended to make more sense in that context. So though I don't have much experience with this guy, I do imagine he is describing real things. I get it though. This video assumes we know and trust his system/room, listening skills, and experience, without a lot of evidence from the video to support that trust. Relative to your thoughts on Steve's purest design approach, as he is working on a new design, I completely get that simpler can be better.... that is, if all the parts, and wires, and design relatively purely convey the recording in its completeness, which Steve obviously strives for and gets. I also get from Steve that when "it" is not enough, it is not enough, and he reworks the design until is sounds right. And sometimes this can take more. Like his addition of some ZRock tech into the Sarah, or offering bypass mods (that are now sometimes built in to new designs). In these cases, more is more. Also he has his string of pre stages, many of which he seems to use himself much of the time, so again, more of the right things can be more for musical expression in a good system and room. Just saying the broader context is important to me in these deliberations. Similarly, having played a lot with mods and cable making, I can't avoid how much part sounds effect design sounds. It is just really obvious once the right better part/wire replaces a little lesser quality ones. A lot of subtle masks and veils solved together can really add up if parts allow complete sound on their own, and if they all go together to compliment one another. Then I can get how as little as possible can be "better," but also, upgrading a bunch of parts done well can leave room for more extra good parts or cables while still having a purer signal presentation than stock. I think simpler synergy can be even more important if parts are good but not quite as complete for purity of musical presentation... each part being a little less transparent and fast, adds up too. Clearly in this case, if we upgrade a bunch of those parts with musical discernment, that original design will be more pure, and allow more flexibility, while retaining musical transparency and speed... For example, even with Steve's really well conceived designs that use quite musical and transparent parts combinations, replacing some with a more transparent set of RCAs, well designed UPOCC internal signal cables, and a more complete sounding attenuator, quite notably increases transparency and musicality of the amp altogether... from the RCAs to tubes, letting more complete and complex information from the recording through. In this case, that could leave room for more parts, especially if they are really good wires or parts, and still be ahead of my stock amp in purity if done well. I feel like I can say these things because I have done hundreds of experiments at this point with all the usual stuff we get into, and a steady stream of progressive modifications, including loads on my Decware. Also I have done many power, IC, speaker, digital, and power cable iterations. And I learn from what I have heard from seemingly countless comparisons of parts and wires while doing these pretty methodical modifications and explorations. I got inspired by VyoKyong's ZMA modifications a long time ago, so started half-heartedly collecting parts on sale, and finally getting my nerve up to go inside the gear, started doing some experiments on my Torii MKIV in the fall of 2016. Power supply bypassing was a big 1st interest, in part because I had a lot of low value caps around I had tested in my speakers as bypasses on the tweeter caps. I loved the clarifying effects from the ones that worked best, more complexity and speed while being able to tune subtle beauty in tonally. So I wanted to see if the power supply would benefit similarly, and it did, being able to hear pretty close to the same cap characteristics in the power supply as on the tweeters or in the signal path. Below is one of the first pics I took of the Torii IV modifications, not thinking to document earlier experiments until several months after getting going. Though there are some upgraded parts in this pic, it looks about like stock, but you have to imagine it without the Jupiter Copper coupling caps that replaced the Jupiter HTs, the HTs becoming power supply bypasses. Also, the bigger Mundorf Supremes (black) having replaced pretty good sounding, but not as good sounding 3.3 uF caps; and all the little bypass caps on top of the Mundorfs and the stock grey and black IC electrolytic caps. Anyway, I hope the stock "bones" can be imagined in this pic. And though I am not using most of these particular caps now, this was a remarkable upgrade at this point for this amp.... From this and later experiences, I learned that the power is really the heart of these amps, and the better the power is at making recordings resolved, transparent, and musically dynamic/immediate, the better the amp. Based on all this, these Super Rectifiers, by appearances, also being a lot about power supply purification and enhancement, if done really well, I suspect they could potentially be pretty amazing "additions" to nice gear, as the cave guy said. To me, conceptually, some really good power supply and signal path work in these components could well enhance our power supply qualities, while introducing cool tubes to our overall sound for tuning to personal tastes...conceptually anyway. To illustrate further how more can be more in the right context, the 2nd image below is a current version of the MKIV, now about six years into pretty steady, relatively methodical explorations. By now lots and lots of parts are upgraded, a number of values changed, and a load of bypasses are used about everywhere I could find that is relevant. To me, without doubt, in this case, way more is way better, the amp having many more parts than stock. A rough count gave me about 22 more parts on each channel, mostly small bypass caps. A fun trip so far, and clearly not about production the way I did it one or two parts at a time, but it sounds amazing. Needs some tuning from the last cap changes that I can hear now that they are all burned in, but close. Just some views on purity of the musical presentation that suggest these Super Rectifiers could potentially be beautiful "additions" with the right gear, power, and cables. Sorry, I can't figure out how to make these pics fit right. Any tips? ![]() ![]() |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 08/26/22 at 01:02:08 Quote:
The last pic I posted I resized to 640x480ish and it fit nicely. HTH |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/26/22 at 01:09:52 Thanks CAJ. Very helpful info. Come to think of it though, these pics already losing clarity, I wonder if that would be better in this case, so much going on? What do you think? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 08/26/22 at 01:54:34 I think you should try it and see how it looks. In general lower res "looks" sharper. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/26/22 at 02:24:18 These are 720 wide and fit here. There? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Mannytheseacow on 08/26/22 at 02:49:46 Will, I don’t have much to share on the external tube rectifier topic but thanks for sharing those photos. This is the first time I’m seeing inside one of these amps and gosh the layout and symmetry is just gorgeous. I mean, that central ground bus running straight down the center from the power in…. Every part laid out for a reason…. Just wow. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/26/22 at 05:37:19 Manny, Not wanting to sidetrack this thread, with more about my experiments except for the ideas I was trying to look at in relation to adding things (like the Super Rectifiers or Steve's pre stages, or parts and cables), and the relativity of "purest" design and effects. And I have been hoping to make some threads with in depth info on modifications I have done, but it has just always seemed like a lot to take on, having been working on the Torii MKIV, CSP3, ZRock2, and HR-1s, and lots of parts testing. But people seem to want to see and talk about it, so I will try to get it moving over the next month or two if I can. Relative to your appreciation of the beauty of Steve's designs, I agree, and guessing you have seen tbe Sarah development thread and pics since you have one on order. But also there are more you may want to check out for some more recent design versions incorporating some of Steve's recent refinements, the SE84UFO25, and I think there was one on the CSP325... also the Torii MK5 development thread is a beauty. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/26/22 at 08:34:27 Quote:
Will at the bottom of the page there is a link right LOAD PICTURES HERE that opens up to IMGBB a hosting website upload your pictures there once you upload your picture a drop-down menu appears go on that drop-down menu to BB code linked medium thumbnail or large most pictures medium is the right size if you don’t see medium take the thumbnail because large is too big for most pictures On this bulletin board I hope that helps |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/26/22 at 14:32:36 Thanks BicycleJoe Lo-Fi. Good to know how those IMGBB thumbnail sizes actually work on this forum... I am used to the thought of thumbnail as quite little#$%^&*() |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Earthbound on 08/26/22 at 15:03:42 Will. So as not to be too overwhelming, due to your concise nature, make a list of the mods in a timeline order. Then in subsequent follow up posts, describe the rationale for adding those changes and the results. That way you’re writing about a mod or 2 at a time and not the whole process. You can then start the next post with why you weren’t 100% satisfied with x, y and z. Might be less daunting that’s all. I’m writing this just to help encourage you to do it because I love hearing you guys discuss these things. Anyway, have a great day and start your outline! |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Mannytheseacow on 08/26/22 at 17:31:21 Will, my comment about the circuit beauty as it relates to the super rectifier topic is that [to me] if I had this beautiful circuit topology as part of my system, that system would be purposefully to showcase that circuit, and adding any additional components to this system would have to compliment the initial circuit, in fidelity, symmetry, and beauty. My point being, throwing the question to the community of how the super rectifier might compliment or detract from each of these things? I’d love to learn from your experiences with your mods in a separate thread too. Cheers. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/26/22 at 17:57:23 Thanks for the simplifying tips Earthbound. Having "a book" of notes before I just started taking pics and relying on memory from pics for sonic reminders, it would be pretty difficult to do as much explanation as you suggest, part-by-part. But a broader set of impressions with a good outline might be pretty doable. Thanks! Your suggestions help! Manny, I am with you. When I 1st saw Steve's amps and website I figured I would love his amps, in part because he pays so much attention to simple but intersting design on the outside, pointing to similar care and simplicity of design for making music too. And luckily it worked out that way. I also appreciate your ideas of fine circuit design potentially being core, and all else needing to match quality or enhance it. I would love to hear one of these simpler Super Rectifiers, guessing from his write-ups and pics, the guy listens and has experimented with interesting and innovative areas. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/28/22 at 15:16:00 It is interesting to note that very expensive NOS or very expensive new production tubes ($500 - $2000 a pr. for example) aren’t necessary at all in these devices. For example Shuguang or Psvane entry level 211, 805, 845, or 300B (a custom adapter from Space-Tech @ $200 is required for a 300B) will fit the bill. You’d need to spend 5x that much to get about 10-20% improvement from that. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Paul2 on 08/28/22 at 20:53:44 ^ Valid point! |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/28/22 at 22:11:36 Paul2 wrote on 08/28/22 at 20:53:44:
Yes, the builder does seem to have quite a bit of knowledge about these tube types so he may be right about these price points. I myself have zero knowledge with a lot of the four pin types he mentions. . . but if I had one of these I'd be experimenting. Still. . . I wonder how compatible they are to Steve's components (I sure am tired of blowing fuses in the underside of the chassis) and at present I would need two of these external rectifiers--not the easiest situation to afford right now. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Dana on 08/28/22 at 22:18:47 Well ya know. While your waiting for the Sarah he sells a 300b amp with the super rectifier built in for under 5K. It would be a good way to build your tube compliment and you shouldn't really lose too much over the year to year and a half wait. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/28/22 at 22:38:14 Well, I didn't understand the post at first but I think I do now. No, I don't want to buy an amp from him while waiting for Steve's. I'm perfectly content waiting with my excellent Monoblocks, and I want Steve's take on the 300B, very much. And I'm theorizing I won't have an additional year or year and a half to wait--just my gut telling me, but I think the new measures Steve has put into place with production and will put into place going forward, and the fact that some will not wait the full length and drop off the list will mean a shorter wait than that. We'll see. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/29/22 at 00:20:48 If one has mono blocks or a dual mono amp, the idea of thinking one has to to go the 2x expense of buying 2 of these units isn’t necessary. Options: 1. Order a 2 tube configuration in one chassis. Will be somewhat less than buying 2 units. 2. Order the single tube gig and link it to a preamp instead. This way, you’ll get 80% of the impact vs. links to the amp(s). If I decide to try this device, I’m going with option 2 on a STR-1001 with choke on/off switch for $250 more. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/29/22 at 00:32:57 That's possibly an okay plan though my preamp in the main system (ZTPRE) does not have a tube rectifier. I'm not trying one of these without checking with Steve and if I do it will be after I receive the Sarah. And I may not have the cash then. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/29/22 at 01:30:31 Checking with Steve on these is critical. Maybe he can be convinced to give a couple of the units a whirl. Possibly even a collaboration between the companies could be forged, similar to Wathen Cryotone…..but that’s getting too far ahead. Space-Tech Lab seems on the surface to be a very serious outfit nonetheless. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Carlsbad on 08/29/22 at 12:05:56 My impression is this guy is an idiot and possibly a scammer. there is nothing magical about 'external" tube rectification. If he wants to market it as "upgraded" rectification, then he might have to share his design concepts, and WHY it is better, which he doesn't seem to do. But wait 60 seconds or you can't play in his treehouse. Huh???? I'll let Steve Deckert design my power supplies over this idiot all week long. Steve uses tube rectification in a lot of his designs. Jerry |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/29/22 at 12:43:29 Thank you, I’m 100% with you. This guy is selling the Emperor’s new clothing. Makes me wonder about all the authorities here on the Decware forum advising other people what they should do with their money. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/29/22 at 12:53:06 I think differently, less harshly. I think there may well be something to his design, and find it intriguing. I've no set plan to purchase one especially without confirming compatibility with Steve's designs, nor am I advising or "telling" anyone to purchase one and what to do with their audio funds. Steve sells ZSTAGES and ZBITS and other "accessory" devices too. And this outfit seems to have a similarity to Decware in philosophy of design and manufacture, I certainly don't think he's a charlaton or fraud. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/29/22 at 13:20:40 Good morning Lon there is a cohesiveness and common thread to all of Steve’s designs even in his push poll amplification. I also believe that the audio fidelity business is full of hyper bole and straight out intentional doublespeak to baffle and confuse. There are many mysteries in the world but electronics is no longer one of them. In every Decware copy description of an amplifier Steve does explain his thought process surrounding his design execution and why available upgrades make a difference. He also clearly states that unless you have a certain quality source or room treatment having 25th anniversary upgrades won’t mean much. That’s not upselling, that is educating his clients so they can experience the full potential of the fruits of his labor. True he surrounds the forum development copy with subjective adjectives describing his orgasmic reaction to every nuanced perceived improvement. But that’s because he’s one of us, an audiophile, a hi-fi nut, a fanatic truly chasing the best sound he can develop and deliver from a handful of vacuum tubes, resistors, caps and wires. It’s how he expresses himself while in the throes of ecstasy from one of his listening sessions. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/29/22 at 13:31:56 Well, I'm sorry but I don't agree with this fully. Steve is not free from hyperbole and salesmanship. Some things that he has been espousing I don't share the enthusiasm for, such as Cryotone tubes, and somethings he says I don't agree with such as there's no need for Anniversary mods if you have an untreated room (if in fact he has said that) --I have untreated rooms and hear clear and strong improvements having added them to several components, knowing the "before" intimately. The fact that this guy is not filling his website up with "papers" and lots of personal statements doesn't make him a "snake oil" peddler to me, and I can see a design philosophy and knowledge in his designs that can be considered impressive. Like Decware until the last few years there is no stockpile of independent reviews to read about his work, nor does he have a forum to house owner impressions--I suspect his resources are even slimmer than our favorite builder's and he dedicates his time elsewhere. I see a similar cohesion and common thread throughout his products to the extent that is true for the Decware line. Personally I see no evidence that he is not an audiophile as we are. I can certainly see the potential advantage of a "super rectifier" using power tubes, and that could be a potent innovation if implemented properly. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, just as I did Steve many years ago. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/29/22 at 13:42:13 Won’t mean much is the wrong phrase I was careless with that but reach its full potential would be the correct phrase, I am definitely paraphrasing. Steve might not of said it in the same thread at the same time. I will say in both instances I am paraphrasing him. Yes I feel the same way about the cryonic process. I have for years. My opinion on Steve’s enthusiasm about cryo is you can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all the people all the time. I think Steve sending in his whole personal SE 84 UFO in for cryo- demonstrates his belief in its efficacy is genuine. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/29/22 at 13:45:56 I'm not doubting its efficacy, I was buying cryotreated tubes and the interconnects I love long before Steve got enthusiastic and before Wathen got into the biz. I just don't get the same improvements and feel as enthusiastic from the two tube types that I did try and don't feel inclined to try more from the Cryotone lineup. I could not describe my impressions the way that Steve has his. I think both these builders have more in common than not and there's room for me to admire the philosophy and work of both, and also to be very loyal to Steve, having had my audio life vastly improved by his work for 25 years. You know over the years I've encountered a lot of resistance to Steve's hyperbolic talk and his "ecstatic" writings about the sound of his equipment and seen persons turn away from considering Decware because of it--Space-Tech may be sparing himself some grief and not turning away customers by being less of a "personality" on his pages. But that doesn't mean that he isn't as excited about his own design discoveries and products--reading between lines I seem to sense this. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/29/22 at 14:41:14 Well then I am looking forward to hearing the opinion of someone in possession of the hardware that we both believe can be objective in their criticism. What really put me off was the range of prices from 1K to close to 4K for components to essentially accomplish identical tasks. That’s when it got a little slippery for me. It might be justifiable,IDK. Maybe you could write to him and ask for one of his builds for an extended period of time to evaluate for a possible review on the Decware forum. Explain how long your relationship with Decware goes and that you are strictly a consumer not a manufacturer. I know I would be eager to hear your first hand opinion. PS my only problem with cryo-is I do not believe it provides any benefits through a vacuum tube. It has been proven beyond a doubt that it does have a effect on interconnects, cables and other bare metals. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 08/29/22 at 15:42:37 By the same token look how many versions of the Zen amp Steve has, and how many options you can add to his products that bring them up to high price points as well. I think you may be being too harsh on Space-Tech with little real backing. The biggest difference I see between his business and Steve's is that Steve spent about 30 years building an online presence including a forum that took a few decades to really flower and it's these customer reviews that have generated a lot of interest and business and also forced him somewhat to interact with customers less ephemerally than by telephone and far more publicly than by telephone or email. And this gives you more trust in his products. Understandably, but in a way Space-Tech is thus damned with little real reason other than a lack of information. Also Steve seems to have more family members and employees as a resource than he does, though it's hard to say with little information. It's like a glass half full, half empty--I think we're looking at it differently that way because his website is not jam-packed with info the way that Steve's has become. No, I'm not going to try to review his product, that's not my bag and time becomes even more limited for such things as the months go by--my time is being pledged to other things by my wife lately. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/29/22 at 17:59:00 Quote:
Jerry, with all due respect this is surprising, coming from you. Maybe give him a call and talk tech in depth? Let us know how it went. Thank you, Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/29/22 at 22:26:21 BicycleJoe, Just wondering since you reference your gear as a Rachel, ZP3, and ZLC on order, have you ever listened to Decware personally?And have you ever done listening comparisons of cyro'd tubes compared to the same make of non-cryo'd and relatively close measuring tubes? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 08/29/22 at 23:03:53 Quote:
Well I bought a 300B amp from him and my impression is that he is neither. He is a bit of a mad scientist, at least over email, but he is technically top shelf. The amp shipped today and in a couple of weeks I'll let you know for sure. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 08/29/22 at 23:22:47 CA, that sounds exciting. Your Scottish heritage took a bit of a hit :-). Yes, please do give us your impressions. That may be just enough for me to try the STR-1001 Super Rectifier a bit sooner than the plan to shelve it for some time. Along with an 805a (and 300B with S-Tech custom adapter for 200 slaps in the face) I’m also very intrigued to try the monster mercury vapor 872a due to its exceptional air, however it would need toned down a tad on the bright end with a bit of tuning. I did email Steve today and asked for some off-the-cuff thoughts in this thread. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 08/29/22 at 23:34:04 Will no I haven’t listened to Decware Personally yet, I have reached out in New York City but have not found someone local willing to share. I am buying on faith and a deep understanding of Steve’s design philosophy, multiple reviews, and customer raves about the SE 84 UFO. As far as cryo tubes my experience is limited to guitar amplifiers and the opinion of JJ Who I believe is the supplier of the re-branded cryo-tone tubes as well as Brent Jesse, vintage tube services and many others. The science is not there that cryo-tone or a cryo-genic treatment can pierce the veil of a glass enveloped vacuum. As far as with cables and interconnect and other bare metal parts yes I have heard the difference. But in those cases I would also say that changing any cables has a direct effect on your SQ. There are cryogenically treated wooden electric guitars on the W website. Now Some people have put forth that they are physicists and electronic engineers and they feel cryo-genic treatment of tubes improved their sound considerably, while I do not have any of those documents on paper I spent 10 years working on F15’s avionics systems and their computer test stations with digital, microwave and computer test system doing in-depth fault isolation and repair on the avionics systems plus the associated test equipment maintenance. I even repaired and made new cables for these test stations and the interconnects to the flight units. Have you ever seen a heads up display? I am one of the persons who upgraded HUD’s to fiber optics and canopy projection. I have more than a passing acquaintance with electronics in both theory and in practice. My previous system was high end consumer-electronics from 1984 when I was in the Air Force active duty a Carver solid-state receiver, the JVC QLY 66F turntable and JBL 240 TI speakers. I am presently using a Rega solid-state amplifier and phono preamp with that turntable and those speakers. While I’m not comparing myself to your level of modification, I have built point to point flying lead amplifiers and I have built many many guitars. I also can read a white paper but there is no scientific documentation of any improvement on an electronic vacuum tube post cryo-genic treatment other than subjective review. I did see Steve’s scope test showing the difference in the noise floor but I remain unconvinced. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 08/30/22 at 03:08:28 Sounds like you have had intersting experiences with electronics. I can not claim to be an engineer, more an explorer based on minimal tech to help get me where I am trying to go, and very serious listening. In this, I have found many engineer views notably inadequate compared to what I hear, so presume that much of the "science" that causes these engineer's "beliefs" is inadequate also. And when engineers can't hear something many of us can based on their belief system, this implies to me that "technical" bias is overwhelming unbiased observation in many cases. I find it really an amazing presumption that our analysis at this state of development with standard measuring gear can be considered complete compared to what we perceive with our bodies and minds. So I don't mistrust scientific theory or practice perse, but human desire can turn anything real into modified reality that is believable enough to appear to be real without carefully looking (delusion), and therefore create permeating bias in the thoughts and efforts of humans. It seems to me that just the money part commonly corrupts scientific practice, limited funds defining the need for studies to prioritize this or that, and only go to certain levels of investigation, while whatever ends up not prioritized leaves the picture incomplete. And this goes for the opinions of others for me, even at times those who I highly respect and trust, like Steve. Though Steve remains profoundly instrumental in enhancing my life, bringing realer musical experiences to my home, and I continue to learn from his explorations and discernment, I have found some of his comments and opinions over many years to appear to me to be based a little more in bias than what I have experienced with some of the same stuff in listening tests. But also we each have our own objectives within our systems and rooms and the development of the system/rooms reflect that...so one system may make some things clearer than other systems and visa versa, and this has influence on our opinions of what is real. So even with pretty deep agreement, we all have different objectives, experience, perceptions, and time allowed for each area of our investigations. For me this makes it difficult to make any strongish remarks without qualifications and explanations of where the remarks are coming from, especially since there are so many variables in systems, rooms, and each person's perception and consciousness. I guess the end of that, is that some of us with really worked out system/rooms and long practice in discernment, have strong agreement about a lot of the many balances we hear that combined make the music realer. But finally, on the whole, most of us are not "measuring" the qualities of gear equally, even in direct experience, and though a given piece of gear, or tube, or cable does carry relatively repeatable traits, apparently it will not sound the same everywhere and to everyone. Further, I personally have to qualify even more deeply if I have no personal experience with something, though occasionally I will point to the opinions of trusted musical friends and teachers, folks who I know from agreement over and over that they have extensive experience and hear the broader and more nuanced pictures of music pretty articulately. But as my system and skills evolve, I just can't be absolute on most things even with listening experience, knowing the vast variables from everything influencing everything. I can love a proven part change in the system that is one of hundreds of parts, or not, depending on context. And each adopted part changes that context. So mostly I am much more comfortable talking about my own experience and interpretation as a basis for what I am trying to convey, trusting what my perception has "proven" to me countess times, "proving" or "disproving" "science," hopes, and theory I have heard, read, or had. And even with things I know from my experience to be real in this system and room, I try to be careful not to be aggressive or absolutist, in part because that is usually polarizing, so not an effective means of communication to me, and as much, there are just too many variables for everyone's knowledge and experience to necessarily match completely with a given exploration. But hopefully, we can provide pointers for other questers, especially based on our real-life observations and discoveries. Some ideas that seem relevant to me today anyway... |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by GroovySauce on 08/30/22 at 12:24:46 Quote:
I don’t follow that it needs to pierce the vacuum. The metal goes from outside the vacuum to inside the vacuum. There is no break in the metal. Long enough exposure should have the entire tube inside and out the same temperature. This might be why certain cryo treatments people report don’t make a difference? Quote:
Why would it make a difference if the insulator is a vacuum? The Cryo-tone tubes I've put in my system did sound different than the JJ non cryo'd tubes. I did prefer the Cryo-tone vs JJ. I don't care for the JJ sound. Cryo-tone took the JJ sound and refined it. They still don't suit my taste. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Same Old DD on 08/30/22 at 14:00:44 The JJs I have tried were definitely different. I would have to say that they enhanced the bass range some, but it was not a refined enhancement. Some of the instantaneous attack was smoothed over in some way. Just not as precise as even the stock Sovtek versions. I have not tried the cryo'ed JJs, but I agree the standard ones were not to my taste. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/01/22 at 18:30:54 I was quoted that currently it’s a 1 month lead time on one of these super rectifier units. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/01/22 at 21:48:30 Posted by: GroovySauce on: 08/30/22 at 07:24:46 Quote:
GroovySauce wrote I don’t follow that it needs to pierce the vacuum. The metal goes from outside the vacuum to inside the vacuum. There is no break in the metal. Long enough exposure should have the entire tube inside and out the same temperature. This might be why certain cryo treatments people report don’t make a difference? Quote:
Groovy Sauce asked Why would it make a difference if the insulator is a vacuum? The Cryo-tone tubes I've put in my system did sound different than the JJ non cryo'd tubes. I did prefer the Cryo-tone vs JJ. I don't care for the JJ sound. Cryo-tone took the JJ sound and refined it. They still don't suit my taste. Answer the absolute zero coolant @ minus 273 degrees Celsius has to make physical contact with the critical bits and pieces inside the vacuum envelope Quote:
Groovy Sauce I myself do not use JJ tubes. if you enjoy and hear a subjective difference good enough, enjoy the Wathen tubes but FYI although I've deleted their email JJ who manufacture the rebranded Cryotone tubes for Wathen answered the same. You can ask them yourself by writing info@jj-electronic.com |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Doug on 09/02/22 at 02:07:17 BicycleJoe, I sense that Will and Groovy are working to give you a way to gracefully slip out of the corner into which you have backed yourself. A re-reading of their comments might be worth the effort. After a few decades of listening to music through high quality tube gear, and having used dozens and dozens of tubes from all over the world, tubes made from the 1940’s on, you just might find yourself on the other side of the aisle. Be sure to post your thoughts again in……..oh, I don’t know……maybe 2052. Not trying to start a fight……..just sayin’. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 09/02/22 at 07:29:59 I thought this thread was about Super Rectifiers and ideas about the way it can work. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/02/22 at 07:47:01 It is Will, you need to ask Doug why he reopened that can of worms invoking your name and others, as I noted above I was responding directly to your question then Doug chimed in with his 2 cents from behind the tall weeds. My opinion of the Super Rectifier? I believe I answered your question respectfully and completely above. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 09/02/22 at 08:36:20 Yes, I get it. You have stated clearly that you are not in agreement with many of us, while revealing your ideologies about trust and suspicion.... as well as making it clear that what many of us actually hear, for you, does not have relevance compared to what you read and take on as your own beliefs. So why not let this one go, and let the thread unfold without any more discord. ;) |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/02/22 at 08:48:49 Not what I said and more correctly not what I wrote. I was responding to direct inquiries about my opinion. It is not ideologies that all the tube manufacturers or purveyors of tube listed above are not in agreement with your subjective arguments. As I stated I have no problem acknowledging cryogenic treatment has an affect on bare metals. AS far as the Super Rectifier you haven't actually heard one have you? Get back to me when a tube manufacturing company adapts cryogenicc treatment to their manufacturing process. Let's put a pin on that instead of being deliberately obtuse. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 09/02/22 at 09:09:51 No, it is obvious from my posts I have not heard a Super Rectifier. But as I said, all the many experiments I have done with power supplies and other modifications imply that this guy's writing seems pretty real, and that Super Rectifiers could well work as the initial reviewer found them to....In my case, these ideas are not from reading, but from a fair bit of experimental experience. And I can't say for sure until I hear one, but guessing as stated earlier. I personally am not going to put a pin on cyro tubes. I have compared tubes with close measurements and run in time on them, and heard the differences, as I recall with JJ 6CA7s, Gold Lion KT66, and Tungsol 6L6G power tubes. Also with Voltage Regulators and input tubes I was very familiar with, and sent in to have cryo'd, hearing similar differences. So ideas of science and tube sellers, don't sync with my experience, which is what I trust more than the biases others have developed for whatever reasons. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 09/02/22 at 10:45:41 Quote:
More subjectivity based on nonsense. Quote:
It was not necessary and/or profitable to promote cryogenic treatment to a market that anticipated replacement of parts and vastly unconcerned with audiophile ideology. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 09/02/22 at 11:14:29 Quote:
"Wait a minute" is most likely necessary to avoid an onrush of current created by the additional capacitors added from the targeted amp, therefore avoiding early tube failure in the external rectifier. I totally agree with keeping this external rectifier out of any of Decwares anniversary offerings. Steve did a very good job with the anniversary mods. John |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/02/22 at 11:44:21 I took the "wait a minute" to be that way as well John. Like Will I think there's quite possibly something interesting to the idea and design of these "super rectifiers," though I too wonder how effective or needed they would be with Decware products which already have powerful power supplies. I wouldn't buy one without consulting with Steve to use with his components, and I won't buy two of them at these price points to use with my Monoblocks, but maybe with the Sarah when that rolls around if Steve thought it would be compatible. We in this hobby can be both aligned with the potential of incremental improvements and prone to overkill in our aims and investments. Some out there take advantage of these tendencies; I don't personally think Steve or Space Tech are one of those. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/02/22 at 12:35:42 [edit]It was not necessary and/or profitable to promote cryogenic treatment to a market that anticipated replacement of parts and vastly unconcerned with audiophile ideology.[/edit] John wouldn't that apply to current production WE or Mullard? These days anyone who is in the market for tube hi-fi equipment falls under the "Audiophile" demographic and who wouldn't want repeat business. Western Electric has been marketing to that segment for more than half a century. BTW I didn't say promote I said include in their manufacturing process to improve their product. I am sure you have a dozen other repartees to support your position but none of them can refute that there is no tube manufacturer past or present that believed in the efficacy of cryogenic treatment. Do you know how tubes are actually made? It would be simple to add one more step to the manufacturing process. Quite simple to apply cryogenic treatment to the bits and pieces before the tubes were actually assembled by hand. Thus side stepping the Vacuum Envelope problem, or if there is no such problem treat finished tubes batches before packaging. If they have no interest why would they go to the bother of retooling and opening factories for such a limited market. From what I understand from Western Electric promotion is they are a spare no expense, time, or effort organization to deliver the best product they can make. https://youtu.be/PA8G5zRjriI HD1080p Batch Process Montage | From the Rossville Works ![]() ![]() |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by GroovySauce on 09/02/22 at 14:47:45 I still don’t understand why the vacuum has anything to do with the cryo process. Is it the cold or the liquid coolant that changes the material properties? I was under the impression that it’s the cold. How thick can a material be and still have the material change? Would a 10” round stock of steel not change all the way through if submerged in absolute zero cooling liquid for long enough? If I had a box that had no liquid in it. It’s temperature is -272. In theory everything in the box will eventually get to -272. This is why I’m confused. I’ve read that the cryo process they slowly bring it down to temperature, hold and slowly bring it back up to temperature. Sometimes they will cycle it in different ways. With liquid coolant (liquid nitrogen?) it seems like an all or nothing. Also seems like it would create thermal shock. Just because a few people say one thing doesn’t mean they are correct or wrong. It’s possible that the cryo process used was not a beneficial process for tubes? As far as manufactures of tubes not cryoing them. Look around, there are luxury and state of the art products all over that can be improved. Why don’t they sell a better version? When I had my “landscaping company” we only mowed, Really it was a mowing company. No lawn clean up, no mulching If it couldn’t be done with a mower and a weed wacker we didn’t do it. Was I leaving money on the table? Depends on how you look at it. I liked that it was very little thought to run the business. I knew how long each job was going to take and how to schedule. The extra money isn’t worth the brain damage. I as I said, I don’t care for the JJ tube sound and once I get my system setup in my new home, I’m going to give the Cryo-Tone tubes one more shot. I’m most likely going to sell them. Doug, I’m flaunting my ignorance about cryo treatment. I really don’t know why Joe says that the vacuum part of a vacuum tube prevents it responding to cryo treatment. My example of the -272 deg box, everything even all the parts of a vacuum tube, will eventually reach -272. Not super rectifier related, power related. I do have my entire system running on power that has gone though a tube(s) I have two Plasmatron 3s. (https://www.vhaudio.com/plasmatron.html) All my digital components go though one and my amp is solo on the other. The difference is spectacular. Power is way under appreciated in how it can improve music playback. I would love to try a pair of the super rectifiers on the Torii! I don’t see it happening any time soon though. Rectifiers set the stage for every other tube in the amp. Having more control and possibly better power sounds like a winner to me. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 09/02/22 at 17:30:33 Groovy, I agree. I am pretty sure I can say that after an earlier version of a Rachel, some of Bob's MG944s, an improved front end, and more transparent and complete cables expanding my musical landscape... then power to the gear, and the power in it, have likely been the most important and influential system areas in seeking the deeper and more complete balances, the deeper beauty. Tubes to me are really important also, a huge playground for me with likely hundreds of NOS tubes. But by refining the power supply parts, the tubes are less critical, while also being more resolving and revealing of their traits. So the good ones are more translucent and complete, and the lesser ones worse, a more resolved environment showing their limitations clearly. And that is using mostly Decware, just helping it to do what is does more completely. So I agree about the power of the rectifier (and circuit) being foundational. In my mind so much begins with the rectifier and associated chokes and transformers, so that area is always in the forefront for me with refinement work. But it all matters. And as I suggested earlier, all that power supply work was a profound improvement in everything musical with the Decware that I have carefully modified mainly by sound.... But I also agree with others that Steve makes great power supplies, and that this is a big part of his sound... Yet, thank goodness, he is always working to improve his power supplies (and the rest), so an ongoing creative process that yields real results. Related, my experience shows that the power supplies, with careful and balanced efforts are upgradable, A-type mods or not. So my quest is in seeking over time making a world class amp more world class. And Steve has provided an amazing platform for folks like me, having squeezed as much beauty out of the amps as he can, while making his things affordable for the highly considered quality he gets... The rectifier is clearly a big part of this, and the power empowering the rectifier can definitely help provide more translucent resolution, immediate and balanced speeds, micro-micro to macro-macro dynamics, and critical spectral balances.... So I hear you, finally the rectifier is fundamental to the whole sound, especially once we seek deeper and deeper immersion, the rectifier defining a lot of how complete the inputs and other tubes, and all that supports them can be. In this context, conceptually, it is impossible for me not to "believe" that something like the Super Rectifiers could potentially be revelatory. And I am guessing the measurements are pretty right being built to replace normal rectifiers we use. And especially with the standby switch, it might just work beautifully??? But I agree that it would be wise to get a feel from Steve about possible cautions and compatibility. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Earthbound on 09/02/22 at 19:21:43 I suppose based on my waitlist position, that this may be useless or a hollow promise. I’m going with the ZMA, which doesn’t have rectifier tubes but the csp3 does. I will purchase the STR 1002($2000), so mid tier and if desired, have it sent straight to Steve. This would probably be spring time but if this “mystery” hasn’t been resolved by then, I will volunteer. So save the thread in the mental rolodex. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Dana on 09/02/22 at 21:11:43 I can see how a vacuum would make a big difference. That's how a thermos works. There is a vacuum between the outer layer and the inner liner so the heat / cold doesn't escape. Also according to a previous post to achieve a -272 C temperature the agent usually liquid nitrogen has to be in direct contact with the medium. If you just dipped the base maybe thru conduction the metal inside the vacuum would eventually reach close to the absolute zero and because of the vacuum it wouldn't heat up to the ambient temperature but I have no idea how long that would take but metal and glass expand and different rates so I could also see if not done correctly (whatever that process would be?) the vacuum could easily be compromised. That said I've never heard one... maybe decfest :) |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/02/22 at 21:36:04 Here it is as defined in the wiki but there is much more detailed information about the chemical processes and the actual change in chemical structure. Steve talked about it on the forum and the information is online but here it is in layman terms from Wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryogenic_treatment A cryogenic treatment is the process of treating workpieces to cryogenic temperatures (i.e. below −190 °C (−310 °F)) in order to remove residual stresses and improve wear resistance in steels and other metal alloys, such as aluminum. In addition to seeking enhanced stress relief and stabilization, or wear resistance, cryogenic treatment is also sought for its ability to improve corrosion resistance by precipitating micro-fine eta carbides, which can be measured before and after in a part using a quantimet. The process has a wide range of applications from industrial tooling to the improvement of musical signal transmission. Some of the benefits of cryogenic treatment include longer part life, less failure due to cracking, improved thermal properties, better electrical properties including less electrical resistance, reduced coefficient of friction, less creep and walk, improved flatness, and easier machining. ![]() |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Kamran on 09/03/22 at 03:57:33 It’s getting hard to focus on external tube rectification and it’s potential benefits with the tangential debate on cryogenics. Would love to hear from folks like Earthbound who end up buying an external rectification unit. It would also be interesting to hear Steve’s take on it. Joe, while I respect your and Brent Jesse’s opinion, perhaps it’s time to just move on? Our community is big enough to accommodate both who believe and don’t believe in cryo and there is no need for either party to go out of their respective ways to denigrate the other party for their views. You’ve said your peace (and then some). For the good of the group (and this thread), let’s call it a night. Kamran |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/03/22 at 08:52:47 As much as I respect your opinion Kamran, telling me to move on is pretty rude since what your real saying is shut up. If you read others posts on this thread they have been asking questions and I have tried to answer them. Kamran this is called a Decware Audio Forum, Webster Dictionary defines a Forum as fo·rum | ˈfôrəm | noun (plural forums) 1 a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged:ie. it will be a forum for consumers to exchange their views on medical research. • a website or web page where users can post comments about a particular issue or topic and reply to other users' postings. IT was first Lon and then Will that first brought up Cryo on this thread with Will going off on what I would call a tangental direction and in one of his long posts he invoked my name directly and asked my opinions. After that I was not the only one who brought up the topic several times. Yet just as you have just done now many others on several different posts on this thread are not about the the super rectifier but only speak about cryogenics and invoke my name. But you want me to silence myself while using my name, how strange. I don't believe I have denigrated anyone. My last post addressed direct questions posted by forum members on this thread who quoted or misquoted me about technical aspects of Cryogenics. I simply posted a wiki entry to explain details that answered several question posted above, I referred people to Steve's posts on this forum on the topic and I encouraged them to seek more info on the internet concerning the chemical changes Cryo effects on metal and it's crystalline lattice structure that Steve wrote about. The WIKI post contains several "facts" about Cryo and several statements I am not in agreement with but I posted it completely anyway without censorship to demonstrate I am not biased. Several statements in it would support cryogenics usefulness for audio and vacuum tubes. So Kamran what was it you were saying about the Super Rectifier, please continue. I have said my piece and as you noted I have explained it to exhaustion yet for some they take my view as a personal challenge and are triggered because they heard a subjective difference. I have never said they didn't or it was their imagination or a placebo affect. I have said if they enjoyed the Cryotube and the sound it provides by all means enjoy it while at the same time I provided authoritative information that supports my opinion objectively. That is the designed purpose of a forum, a place for the exchange of ideas and opinions. Whether you like them or not. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 09/03/22 at 11:34:29 So, we got this external tube rectifier introducing noise to a well tuned amplifier(Decware)! Just don't jive IMHO! Capacitors are inherent of creating noise in amplifiers. Think of the noise static electricity creates when discharged between a finger and door knob...ouch! Thats what happens inside a capacitor. So the ETR adds more... Extending the socket of the targeted amp with an umbilical cord creates resistance and limits current to a degree that was not present in the amp prior insertion of the ETR. MP3's compromise media. A caveman is beating bones over improvement of sound while listing to compromised media! I think ear fatigue will set in after haphazardly inserting a ETR in my system. I pass. John |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by GroovySauce on 09/03/22 at 13:50:31 Will, I’m with you. Once I got my preferred rectifier tube sorted, the other tubes fell into place quickly. JBzen, umbilical cable resistance is a consideration. Does the Super Rectifier use a brute force method of overcoming this then massaging it so it’s silky smooth? I have a hunch it adds harmonics to the power. So even if it’s limiting current a small amount it makes up for it with harmonic richness. How much does limited current affect Class A amps. Especially low power ones? a UFO at 65W or a Torii at 85W /channel. The draw from the rectifier is a few watts less as those figures are before the transformer. I’ve hit the point where I don’t know how to fit everything in the room. Adding two boxes (Torii) with 4 more cables seems like a logistical nightmare. And of course would “NEED” one for my ZP3 too! I completely understand why there are so many ads stating they are downsizing. July I packed up my stereo, moved and haven’t got it setup yet. I have two Triple Threat Subwoofers that have yet to be assembled and I have no idea how I’m going to fit them in a 19.5x27’ room! I would love to audition a pair or trio though! Oh man, audiophiles are crazy. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by HockessinKid on 09/03/22 at 13:51:11 I love to see arguments about sh#t when nobody posting has any direct listening experience with an audio product. Really this is just arguing for the expressed purpose of arguing. Come on forum members, let's step up our game and share helpful information to each other. Get a grip folks! HK |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Paul2 on 09/03/22 at 14:21:23 I am with HK here. All this speculation and arguing over a product that no one here has actuallly used. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by ChrisC on 09/03/22 at 14:35:14 ditto [smiley=tunes51.gif] |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Kamran on 09/03/22 at 15:30:52 Agreed, perhaps we can revisit this once we have some direct member experience. This is going nowhere, but in circles. Joe, I disagree with your analysis of my recommendation to move on but won’t belabor the point any further. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Donnie on 09/03/22 at 16:52:53 It is nice to watch a good argument that doesn't degrade into a name calling contest. Everyone acted pretty much as a adult and I didn't have the need to step in and break things up. Nothing political, no one called anyone a idiot or took potshots. See different opinions can be displayed here with no bloodletting. Donnie |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Edsonic on 09/03/22 at 21:09:09 I would respectfully propose that discussion of the scientific validity, yea or nay, of cryogenic process for tubes be conducted in a thread for that purpose, instead of repeatedly derailing threads on another topic with that issue. There was (and still is) in fact a thread which fits that description: https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1622944026. And of course one can start a new thread for that purpose. Conveyance of one's own experience with cryo'd tubes is no different than likewise for tube rolling, interconnects, fuses, etc., and would be welcomed likewise. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Doug on 09/03/22 at 22:24:50 Donnie said: “It is nice to watch a good argument that doesn't degrade into a name calling contest.” I got called a “flatearther”, which is no big deal. Of real concern is how he knew. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Same Old DD on 09/04/22 at 01:55:18 Lots of traffic. Lots of questions. I'll try to merge when I have more time. Interesting discussion. Keep it up. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/04/22 at 02:32:20 Quote:
What cap makes noise through a speaker in an audio system? The umbilical is far too short to cause any ill effects related to resistance. Actually the impedance of the rectifier itself is a few thousands fold over that of the umbilical. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 09/04/22 at 11:30:15 Aging caps will make noise through the speakers. Any lenght of wire will be resistant to current flow. Keeping in gist of the conversation, hoping not to excite the crys of censorship from the spoon bang gang, the idea of tethering a box full of electronics to a fine tuned amp just don't make good sense. Why spend thousands on a mystery box that can be returned if not satisfied for up to 30% restocking fee plus shipping both ways when a $30 tube could produce the same result. Space Tech has been around for about the same time as Decware. Both companies hand build their products. The big difference is Steve will share his philosophy openly while absorbing feedback in a positive way. In other words we all learn as a Decware family. ST seems to be more secret in their offerings and return policies seem a bit revealing to me. ST's super rectifier will no doubt help some amps but I personally do not think it is a good fit for the Decware anniversary offerings. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/04/22 at 11:56:02 I don't really disagree with you--I wouldn't try one of these without Steve's input on the component. But I think I have a little more intuitive faith in this product. .. I think it could potentially produce a better result than a thirty dollar rectifier in the right component. I would like to note that the 30% restocking fee is only for custom orders, other restocking fees are 10% and 20%. One big consideration is that postage from the US to Canada and from Canada to the US is HIGH. Really hign. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 09/04/22 at 14:11:46 It cost less to ship the 45 lb 300B amp from Canada than it did to ship 2 UFOs (that weigh less combined) from Decware. FWIW, FYI. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/04/22 at 15:34:48 Well that's good to know. My last mailings to and from Canada a year or so ago were awful damned expensive. Interested in hearing your impressions of the amp. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/04/22 at 16:16:19 JBzen, Thank you for that input. Two thoughts: 1. You’re quite right about the protectiveness of ST. Pretty standard in the business. Steve is a very different animal and we are lucky to have him. 2. The spoon gang can go to Hades. Little children in adult bodies. Can’t even handle the internet. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 09/04/22 at 20:39:24 JBzen and Brad, You guys lost me on the spoon bang gang thing... Can you educate me on what this means... sorry, I don't get out much :) JBzen, Am I correct that you like a "purist" approach...tending not to wanting more things, even very transparent things in your paths. If so I get it, especially in theory, and if all else is equal in design, parts, wires, and cables.... But on the other hand, if it is all really good stuff to start with, in my case with Steve's "signature" sound considerations unifying them, my experience is that it is easier to add things of the same basic style. And these pre-stages being generally pretty transparent, while offering different enhancements from the designs, I like how they can compliment each other and the amp. Once tuned carefully with great tubes and all, individually and together, for me the improvements to musicality can easily outweigh the losses, liking the "improvements" enough that I have to listen for the subtle losses from more things in the path. That said, I do have really good power now, super good cables throughout, pay attention to vibration tuning, etc, so a lot of impediments to un-smeared and translucent sound are taken care of along with careful tube tuning, and later, modifications. And with successful modifications throughout, the same easy integration tends to happen for me, but with increased transparency, natural immediacy, realistic dynamics, clearer space and harmonic complexity, etc. Time and time again, adding the CSP3 or ZRock or ZBIT, I can improve my Torii sound. And as this progression unfolds, though subtle minor losses remain, I have to listen harder to hear them. A fun part, each progressive longer dive into one component always reveals ways to improve the others, taking the sound of all the rest further yet, and creating some new references to improve the others from. The other side though.... I had not gotten a new component in a long time, and got a used ZRock2 with only the tube mod. After hearing it with everything else modified pretty successfully, I would not have been able to keep it had I not been into modifications... it was compelling and cool, but just not up with the rest in their post stock or 25th mod states... Compared to the rest, it was a little slow and masked.... illustrating how even with nice designs, context matters when adding things. So I set out to bring the ZRock into equilibrium with the rest, and pretty much needed to do all I did on the others to get there, all changes arrived at by sound tests... extra good connectors and wires/cables, resistor and cap tuning/refining, really careful bypass tuning, and in this case, output caps on the EQ board. And having focussed on it for months, it got me wanting to bring the Torii up some more to catch up with the ZRock's enhanced traits. The "new" ZRock engaged, more density without thickness or weighting the balances too much toward bass, complex harmonics with more complete space and fine detail throughout...definitely having a ZRock flavor, but what got my attention as much was how improving it taught me how the super tuned Torii could improve. So lately, I am running my Torii with only a ZBIT between it and DAC, and the Torii seeming about right now, this thread stimulated me to test this setup with and without my the seriously modified ZRock2. After the ZRock revealed it, the biggest thing the Torii lacked in comparison was very fine detail and space that the ZRock in this state helped pull. But I am always listening to the whole and the many balances, so also had my attention on more refined speed balances, open density, and richer complexity throughout, less smearing supporting it all. Consistently I find cap combos (base and bypass layers, power and coupling) are instrumental in bringing in the finer tonal nuances and finer detail and space, potentially contributing greater resolution, and associated, increased density also if needed. These can be adjusted with the right little caps and/or layers of caps... like more resolution with less apparent density and more space, or more resolution with more apparent density (or warmth, or space, shimmer, body, etc). And tuned well, finer detail, space, and density can carry throughout the spectrum, just from the right choices of these (added) little bypass combos. Though generally the case that smaller decent caps can help bigger bypasses do better, a lot of seemingly decent caps do not work as well as I like for this. But the right combos of the right caps promote a more authentic musical presentation everywhere, all the finer nuances of refining speed, space and resolution improving bass density with complexity, more timbral completeness, more resolved bass attacks and decays, clearer representation and differentiation between the kick drum and string bass notes... and same with mids and highs when all is right. Anyway, an interesting trip lately having brought the Torii up to new levels based on insufficiencies the ZRock work revealed. And turning on the ZRock, I love it, or without, I love it. When on, richer resolution, but now more difficult to distinguish after the Torii tune up... but listening to whole records and getting reacquainted, its magic is there, more dense without thickness, more "analog" smooth with loads of fine detail, more natural immediacy and dynamics, more refined detail complexity and articulation along with more bass boldness and articulation. And after a while of adapting, it got more magical...just realer with a touching sweetness, not colored, but sweeter. With the "new" Torii, each of the ZRock's individual sonic area's additions and support were relatively subtly, but they added up in the experience, end results much greater than the sum of the individual improvements. When I listen carefully for issues related to more parts in the paths, I can still hear it slightly in some aspects of the sound, things a little more concentrated making a little less complex space between the finest details. But with the added harmonic sweetness shifting toward the mids a little as a result of the greater density and a little stronger bass in the balance, the space feels more solid and empty too while the ZRock enhances the whole in its particular ways. It is always surprising to me how much further "great" can go as I learn the tools better, and learn to discern sonic traits better. So I guess all this is relative, everything depending on all else. And I suppose I could call myself a purist, the purity and completeness of the musical experience the bottom line, but I get it in part with refined complexity. On another note, I don't understand how one can say without looking inside and listening that the STR Super Rectifiers would be no better than using better rectifiers. Possible I suppose, but if this designer is as serious as he sounds like he is, and as straight forward and honest as his emails imply, I doubt it is no better than changing rectifiers. And if my supposition is real, and we like his style, I still think it could potentially be enlivening, even with my super tuned power supplies. Maybe... I am starting to more seriously consider getting one myself to test, and in hopes of helping to clear up all this speculation. The idea of the influences of an 805 or 845, etc, with purported increases in all the other good things from the circuit design, it is compelling to me, and I could get the lowest level model and use it on the CSP3. But then, for some true believers in "purist" simplicity, I guess my explorations and interpretations may not be believable anyway, so would my opinions on this thing matter in this thread...maybe to some. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/04/22 at 22:25:14 Will, I agree. It’s more than worth $100-150 + shipping to put it all to rest. I say put up or shut up. An 805a, 845, 211 and damned right yeah a mercury vapor 872a. We with dual mono or mono block amps would do well to try a single STR linked to the CSP3. Brad PS….Spoon gang clanging for censorship….pretty self evident, though just to put it straight means the pussy crowd that jump on the bandwagon who can’t handle colorful language with some jack behind it to push back on a stated claim of opinion. These are weasels who can’t deal with actual real street talk and can only live in the world of diplomatic fakery…..so they run straight to the moderator to bitch and complain. I’ll bet you already know of a few here that guy that mold…..you can smell ‘em miles away. They represent the shutdown/cancel culture of cowardice, |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 09/04/22 at 23:19:53 Yes those tubes seem like they could offer compelling flavors to our sounds, especially with the support of the circuit being a big player in the effects Al seems to seek. Thanks Brad for the colorful and notably aggressive definition of spoon gang clanging... still not self evident to me by the language, but I don't hang out on political, or the social sites, or watch TV, or wherever one learns these things. I at least understand now what it means though, so thanks. I prefer civil discourse over amped up aggression myself...aggression generally cultivating aggression, and a lot of energy that could have gone into real learning spent on reactivity back and forth to aggression, making solving problems or helping each other difficult or impossible. I see no political evangelical benefit in it either, in part for these reasons, and in part because our political/media machines have cultured polarization for so many decades, that fear, frustration, anger, hatred and aggression are now systemic.... which cultivates self-fulfilling polarization! Guess that probably makes me a spoon-gang guy huh? Running to the moderator and complaining? I would guess this is perhaps not real for most of us, Donnie likely paying attention to threads where known politicized aggression might possibly develop and try to chill it before it blossoms.... hoping to mitigate what to me is as much a vehicle for discrediting or picking unproductive fights as anything. My thoughts anyway. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/05/22 at 05:31:57 Will, Well that doesn’t make you a spoon clang banger for censorship. What that takes is a childish penchant for being a little tattletale and running behind momma’s skirt. Most aren’t like that but I know for a certifiable fact that there are plenty enough. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 09/05/22 at 12:19:12 Will, Certainly you are not part of the spoon bang gang in this thread. Quite the opposite. Think of a wedding reception where we pick up a spoon and bang on china requesting a romantic response from the just married couple. Apply that to this thread where noise was created, as I took it, "to put out or shut up" eliciting a response from the moderator. A form of censorship that this forum was never about. Brad's idea of inserting the SR into a CSP3 is a good one. Groovysauce's though of physically adding yet another piece of hardware to the system is valid. CAJames unraveling the mystery that might be in the box is interesting and thought provoking. Just a few examples of ideas and speculation without ownership. Who would have thought of those with censorship. You sir are very articulate in your writings with painstaking detail. The pics of your work parallels your writings. I, as you are open minded and willing to readily admit mistakes as we learn. When you have time to organize your tweaks and post, my eyes will be eager to absorb those. Space Techs return policy goes something like this: 5% fee for local returns 10% fee for used purchased returns 20% fee for new purchased returns 30% fee for custom returns Plug "n" Play has always been iffy. Sure it will work when plugged in but it seems glitches always surface in actual use. John |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/05/22 at 16:51:06 +1 to JBzen. Yes indeedy. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by will on 09/05/22 at 20:40:38 Thanks John for further defining spoon banging. The illustration of a wedding helps me get the language origins. Just wondering... when you said this, guessing you are referring to Super Rectifiers?: "Plug "n" Play has always been iffy. Sure it will work when plugged in but it seems glitches always surface in actual use." and if so, I wonder if you might be up for expanding, or pointing us to links to fill this thought out? Thanks, Will |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 09/06/22 at 09:53:57 Hi Will, The first glitch is the human interaction required. - the switch and sequence specified by the caveman. Turn on the ST, wait 60 seconds, turn on the initiation switch, finally turn on the targeted component. To turn on my system I say, "computer turn on DeeClair" "turn on capacitor bank." So using cavemans system sequence(as recommended by the manufacturer I suppose) would be inconvenient and haphazard in my circumstance. The switch itself. I can only guess that switch supplies filtered DC to the cathode socket pins in the target component, eliminates the anode supply voltage from that targeted component, and creates an unbalanced condition in the target power supply. What do you think? Sorry for being short here but I am leaving tomorrow morning heading out west. Need to pack and do last minute chores. Edit: after posting the above I listened for some sort of relay click when initiating the SR in the video. I did not detect any. But according to the caveman the target component supplies the anode voltage. This confuses me on how a switch can control all this? Plus DC and AC on a single length of cord? Got to go. John |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/06/22 at 12:19:49 JBzen As I stated before I believe the Cave man should stay in his cave, what a wanker to demo gear with MP3 and Bluetooth playback. He even said he was too lazy to hook up his system correctly for the demo. Not one other YT exspert (EX=HAS BEEN, SPURT = BIG DRIP) is flogging this esoteric gear. But it has been amusing listening to you guys Babylon about it. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 09/06/22 at 12:37:04 Yeah BJ, I did a search for reviews as suggested by Space Tech and did not come up with much on the SR. Mostly snake oil posts and some suggest the SR might help out some Chinese amps. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/06/22 at 13:11:49 I think Steve’s pretty smart not to get involved in a thread like this about another manufactures work, It isn’t good business really to talk badly about a product, that just creates a lot of noise that doesn’t clarify anything. There’s enough of that on the forums all over the internet and I’ve never seen anything good come out of it. Hell these days even the critics and the reviewer‘s do not want to speak badly about somebody else’s work, they’re afraid they won’t get that advertising dollar. That’s why so many units designs get ignored by the press and you won’t see a review telling you that something is snake oil or just bad design. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/06/22 at 13:29:34 I like how it is assumed Steve would talk bad about it. Lot of prejudging going on here. Which is expected as there is so little solid information about the product. Which is on Space-Tech ultimately. But without a forum this is how Decware was many years ago. And a lot of shade thrown at Decware as a result. If only negativity online were as comforting as negative ions in the air! |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/06/22 at 13:31:53 Another interesting thing about Space-Tech is that if you look at their photos of the place itself. . . no treated rooms are shown. So it begs the question: do they know how their components sound in one? And it also is intriguing to me in that I have never been able to have a treated room and probably never will, so perhaps components designed and perhaps voiced without one might have a significance in my listening experience. (But I'm not interested in trying out one of their amps or preamps--I'm fully set up with Decware in that regards, and though I'm curious about a good 300B amp it's the Sarah I will try. . . first and probably be floored by it). |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by BicycleJoe Lo-Fi on 09/06/22 at 13:36:36 in general whether that opinion is good or bad commenting on line about another designers theories andr unknown design work with little or no concrete information about it is bad form for as a matter of opinion or a way of doing business. Think about it, Steve is shrewd, I don't think he would hesitate to share his opinion privately though. He has many times and I value him for that. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/06/22 at 13:52:52 I did think about it. I've been around here a long time and think I know a bit about the guy. I don't think he would give an uneducated opinion about it, but he sure does like to hype some other companies products (such as Lil and Wathen) that he's tried, and poo poo'd a few, and all I would really expect him to elucidate is compatibility with his rectifier based components and possible sonic effects. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/06/22 at 13:57:25 Steve isn’t going to comment unless he can review a schematic, and that ain’t gonna ever happen. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/06/22 at 14:04:30 I'm glad you and Joe can speak for both Steve and Space-Tech so freely. ;) I wouldn't expect him to comment blind. Said so. I do think he could read all the info on Space-Tech and might venture a guarded opinion about compatibility. One poster here has proposed sending him one of the Super Rectifiers. He may well comment then if that is the case. Whatever. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/06/22 at 14:06:30 I posted that because it is an absolute fact, not conjecture. As for reviewing the real thing, I suppose that’s possible but right now he’s too busy preparing for Decfest. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/06/22 at 14:07:03 Oh. LOL. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/06/22 at 14:08:50 Why the laughter? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/06/22 at 14:10:40 NO comment. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/06/22 at 14:11:53 Good. That’s better yet. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/06/22 at 14:14:53 tempest62 wrote on 09/06/22 at 14:06:30:
DUH. I never stated I expected otherwise. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/06/22 at 14:22:07 Quote:
I posted that for general consumption. It’s not always all about you. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/06/22 at 14:25:34 I'm well aware. I posted because you replied to my post. I decided to reply. I'll go back to deciding not to. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 09/09/22 at 17:42:07 So my space-tech labs 300B amp touched down yesterday, and based on my (admittedly limited) experience these guys are fully legit and I would not hesitate to do business with them. My 300B tubes only have a handful of hours on them so I don't want to say a whole lot about the sound beyond it is really good (and getting better as the tubes start to break in) and actually surprisingly similar to my UFOs. One of the things that attracted me to the amp was that it uses 6S[N|L]7s for input so I have a lot of options for tube rolling once the power tubes settle in. JMO/FWIW/YMMV and all that. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/09/22 at 17:55:43 Awesome CA--keep us posted as this amp seasons. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Dana on 09/09/22 at 22:25:39 I've been thinking about the technology and the external rectifier may be the HIFI bargain of the century. It's basically converting any amp into a 25th anniversary edition. Steve charges $2000 dollars to convert a SE84UFO into SEUFO25 with the major change being: "3 independent tube-regulated power supplies - one for each audio tube. Vacuum-tube rectification - brute force power supply that is oversized by 261%. Is that really that different from what the Space Tech Labs Ultra Rectifier is doing? (especially if you have mono blocks). I'm just wondering what my 25th Anniversary Dynaco St-70 could sound like? Also by my findings the dollar is a lot stronger than the CAD so his US dollar calculations may not be accurate. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 09/18/22 at 21:17:36 I've had my 300B amp for about a week and half now. I've got over a hundred hours on my "hundred buck" 300B tubes and rolled through a fair number of input tubes. My plan had been to listen exclusively to the 300B amp for 2 weeks and then go back to my UFOs for comparison, but I couldn't wait. So this morning fired them up, with my favorite TFK PCC189 input tube, and the comparison is fascinating. The TL;DR is they are both outstanding amps, and the sound is similar in some ways but different enough in others that I'd have a hard time choosing which one I like better (more on that below). And, for the purposes of this thread IMO Space-tech is the real deal and if you are interested in any of their stuff I would not hesitate to contact them with questions. Re: comparisons; the Space-tech amp definitely has juicier low frequencies. It doesn't go lower than the UFOs, but there is more energy in the lower octaves, and the bass is extremely tight. No flab. The UFOs have more high end air and transparency. Both amps have a big sound stage beyond the speakers and floor to ceiling, but with the 300B the images are bigger, and feel more solid. Perhaps this is what posters mean by "density" which is something I never really understood. The UFOs have better depth front to back, but it my room that isn't going to be great even best case. They both have that elusive tube yumminess, if anything the 300B amp errs on the side of too much, and is missing a tiny bit of detail compared to Decware. Back to me, I'm not really sure where to go from here. I never considered being a "2 amp guy" and I bought the 300B amp (and relatively cheap 300B tubes) with pretty low expectations, because I've always been #300Bcurious, the balanced input circuit was interesting and it used 6SN7 tubes for input and I have a bunch of options for those. I figured the amp was cheap enough I could play around with it for a while and then sell it. But now I'm thinking about "WTF expensive" 300B tubes and holding on to it for the long term. But I have a pair of UFO25s sitting at 514 on the wait list and I really want them too. This is certainly a good "problem" to have, I guess I just need to live with the amp some more, and maybe get some therapy. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 09/18/22 at 22:21:50 Thanks for the impressions! Sounds as if it is a good amp and reinforces my desire to try the Sarah when my number comes up! I too will then have two top tier amps and decisions to make. Having lived in third world countries and had a poor youth these first world problems are less fretting. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Kamran on 09/18/22 at 22:37:31 Thanks for sharing CAJames. Similar to Lon, your experience also makes me even more curious (and anxious) to hear Sarah at Decfest. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/18/22 at 23:27:05 Hey James, Thank you for sharing your experience so far. Zero interest in any 300B here, though you did help confirm my interest in their mid-tier super rectifier with an added custom option. I’ve had a few email strings with Al and he’s no joke. By the way, which model used 300B did you purchase? And a big thanks goes to Dana for starting this thread. So it’s a big wet quadruple egg omelette in the face of the forum’s loudest here with an attitude and nothing to base anything on. The truth always wins. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by JBzen on 09/19/22 at 03:20:58 Quote:
At the risk of being insulted, I do not see any value or substance in that statement above concerning this thread. John |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/19/22 at 03:41:54 John, No need for concern. I wasn’t referring to you. You’re not the Loud One. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Earthbound on 09/19/22 at 11:19:41 It wasn’t who the statement was directed at that was the concern , but the inflammatory nature of the statement. It’s just instigating and begging for a response from the intended target. Why start? We come here for fun and to learn that’s all. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by GroovySauce on 09/19/22 at 12:22:14 CAJames, Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s prematurely whetting my appetite for the Sarah 300B! Once you have had more time—and the 300B settles in more—the answer will present itself. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 09/19/22 at 15:23:44 Just FYI/FWIW here are some comparisons between my amp and what we know about the Sarah 300B. My amp weighs 40 lbs, and most of that is the transformers. They are pretty bad a$$, and probably why the bass is so tight and well defined. I don't know how much Sarah is going to weigh, but for comparison the SE34I.6 is 18 LBS. Both amps have AC circuits for the heaters. Mine has a screw to adjust to minimize the hum. Hum is kinda a trigger for me and with my 95 dB speakers there is some. I can hear it at the speakers, not so much from my seat (but I know its there...). Sarah has a tube rectifier, which would be my preference. My amp is SS rectified, and has a (presumably) can'o caps bigger and taller than a 300B tube for power supply reservoir. It also has a 10 second soft start circuit, where as I believe Sarah is choke regulated. Probably the biggest different (at least topologically) is the input. We all know about Sarah's "zrock inspired" input circuit that uses the Decware standard 9 pin input tubes. The thing that really got me interested in the Space-tech amp is that it has a balanced input circuit with 6S[N|L]7 input tubes. The balanced input drives the 300B tubes which are single ended. For me, the 'L7 had too much gain so I've been using pairs of single triode equivalents of the 6SN7: 6J5GTs, VT37 and my favorite GEC L63. Finally the cosmetics. The Space-tech amp is gold finish aluminum, and is not really my style. I much prefer the Decware look, but what are you going to do? ![]() In other news some "friends" on another site convinced me to get the Takatsuki 300B tubes so more on that later... |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/19/22 at 23:49:06 James, I think your new amp looks great. I hope you fall in love with it :-) Getting it used was a smart move. I’ll bet you got a nice deal. Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 09/22/22 at 15:01:01 Has anyone purchased one of the super rectifiers yet? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 10/01/22 at 00:57:35 One poster on the PS Audio forum mentioned he had bought one recently used from The Music Room, and pictured a basic one in use that he said he was using with his preamp (which he did not identify). He felt it was a significant upgrade. His remark: Bought this separate power supply from the music room for $450, it made a huge difference when I plugged it into the preamp’s rectifier socket. When I inquired whether that was a Space-Tech Laboratory Super Rectifier he replied: Yes, it’s a space tech super rectifier. A couple $20 rectifier tubes just blow away the mainstream rectifiers that most other equipment uses. I can flip the switch to 5 volt and put mainstream rectifiers in it also or even a 300b as a rectifier. His photo: |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 10/01/22 at 02:26:59 Lon, thanks for sharing that. Off the cuff, based on the price used and photos at the site, that looks to be Space Tech’s entry level STR-104. Very encouraging. I’m strongly considering the STR-1001 with choke option at some point, so I can also experience the big tubes, even the mercury vapor 872A. I too would be linking it to the preamp. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by astro-chris on 10/12/22 at 16:38:11 So to use one of these with my Torii Mk3, which has one rectifier per channel, would I need to buy one to replace each rectifier tube (that would be very expensive!!!), or does Space-Tech make a version that is stereo and would replace both rectifiers in my amp? Thanks! Chris |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by tempest62 on 10/13/22 at 16:43:38 Astro-Chris, Yes, unfortunately you would have to buy 2 super rectifiers for a dual mono amp like the Torii, or a pair of mono blocks. A great alternative would be to link a single super rectifier to a tube rectified preamp. Do you have one? Brad |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by astro-chris on 10/13/22 at 17:12:39 Hi Brad, Thanks for your response. Yikes, that will be cost-prohibitive to have to buy 2, even if they are a major improvement. Unfortunately, I do not have a tube rectified preamp; I am using the Torii MK3 as a stand-alone integrated amp. I'm still very eager to hear some impressions from someone who has heard one of these units with Decware gear. Maybe if it's a night and day difference, I might start saving my pennies :-) Thanks again, Chris |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 10/13/22 at 17:25:49 Chris, I don't think anyone has used this with Decware gear yet. Personally, after spending a few weeks rotating about a dozen different pairs of rectifiers through my Monoblocks I don't think this is likely a benefit worth the money for Decware components. The power supply, especially with the Mods, is quite robust and responsive to rectifier rolling. I think money is possibly better spent on Anniversary mods and with those this "super rectifier" is likely to have a lesser impact. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by astro-chris on 10/13/22 at 17:33:05 Hi Lon, Thanks so much for your thoughts. What all are involved in the "anniversary mods"? As I have a Torii Mk3, I don't think Steve offers that for my amp. I have, however, been working with Will to systematically go through and mod multiple aspects of my Mk3, and it is sounding quite spectacular, so maybe I should forget about these "super rectifiers" and just do some tube rolling with my Mk3. For the cost of the super rectifier 9especially 2 of them), I can buy an awful lot of rectifier tubes to try :-D Thanks again, Chris |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Lon on 10/13/22 at 17:47:12 There's a lot of info here on the forums about Anniversary mods. Steve has one level built into the latest version of the Torii and another level available as a mod for an additional 400 dollars, and I think others with Mk III have had Anniversary Mods added to their amps, I would check with Sarah or Steve about cost and levels. Or check with Will. I believe in Will and the improvements he makes; imo his is one of the best audio minds. ;) |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Tooppy on 11/11/22 at 21:51:31 It seems Steve had something up into its sleeves ....I didn't know about this rectifier tube....so I ordered it ! https://www.decwareproducts.com/product-page/russian-5u4 |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Kamran on 09/08/23 at 03:34:28 It’s been a while and I wanted to resuscitate this thread to gauge if anyone used the super rectifier with Decware gear with Anniversary mods? The speculation last year was that this would have not a meaningful impact with the robust power regulation inherent in newer Decware amps. CA James, it’s been a year since you got your 300B from Space Tech. Any additional impressions you’d like to share over your long term ownership? Can’t recall, did you end up getting the Takatuski 300B tubes? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by Tooppy on 09/08/23 at 08:54:11 Since this came out : https://wathenspeakers.com/store/p137/5AR4-WC_-_V2.html Anyone has tried it ? |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 09/08/23 at 15:34:11 Quote:
I've posted about this elsewhere, but since you asked I guess no harm in recapitulating here ![]() I've been listening to the Space-tech 300B amp exclusively since I sold my UFOs in January. Yes, I got Takatsuki 300B tubes, which were a nice improvement over the perfectly listenable budget Chinese 300Bs I started with. I've also been cycling through my collection of 6SN7 equivalent input tubes. In a word the sound is beautiful. On the right recordings it is the most beautiful sound I've ever heard, recorded or live. If I had never heard Decware UFOs I could easily live with this forever. But (and now this is based on my months old memory of the UFO sound) it isn't as fast or detailed or spacious as I know is possible. It is maybe too beautiful: the UFOs were the the perfect balance of truth and beauty. The 300B amp trades some truth for more beauty, and I'd like the truth back. My UFO25s are currently hung up in the supply chain, and I'm looking forward to getting the Decware sound back in my listening room. I anticipate selling the 300B amp soon after they arrive, so if anyone is interested watch the classifieds. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by 4krow on 09/08/23 at 21:01:09 Good for you, knowing the sound that you prefer and not what is touted to be the best. In other systems it is quite possible that you would prefer the 300B sound, but that would be my point to begin with. Go with your preferences. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by GroovySauce on 09/09/23 at 12:40:57 After room treatments I've spent more time and energy on the power delivery to the system than anything else. My experience is power is often a second thought. I would love to try the super rectifiers. The cost to try is too steep for me right now. STR-1002 Ultra Super Tube Rectifier $1664 Power Cable ~$1,600 2 more sets of tubes to roll ~$400? 3664x2 = $7328 Yes, I could go with a lower model. for $952. My thought is if I'm going through the process of auditioning it I would want to really see what it can do. I would also need to get two more PCs that I'm happy with to give it a fair go. I'm also tight on space for more components. I'm very happy with the EML 5u4g tubes I've been running for the last 1.5 years. They beat out NOS from the 40's through new production. I've also been so happy with my stereo for months I'm not motivated to change anything. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by johnnycopy on 09/09/23 at 17:12:02 Hey Groovysauce I really like my Eml xls 300b tubes Most ballsy 300b I have heard and bulletproof with 5 year warranty. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 09/09/23 at 17:18:15 Quote:
That's where I'm at as well. IMO it is a sweet technology and I'd really like to try at least one in my headphone/pre-amp. But the bill for my UFO25s is coming due soon so that's where my hardware budget is allocated for the foreseeable future. And of course if I get one and really like it then I'd need to get 2 more for the UFOs ![]() Quote:
Yeah, that too. And I've got a lifetime supply of nice rectifiers already. So, not today but maybe some day... |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by GroovySauce on 09/09/23 at 23:31:23 johnnycopy How did you decide on the EML xls 300B? I'm a huge fan of the EML 5u4g so when I get my Sarah 300B a EML 300B is on my list of tubes to explore. EML makes 3 different versions? Sorry for asking a question not true to the original thread. CAJames As I mentioned above, I'm incredibly happy with how my system is right now. I also ordered a Sarah 300B a year ago. So I'm not motivated to make any changes right now. Good chance I have a lifetime of NOS rectifiers too. I've been enjoying my system and not messing with it for a few months now* if I'm enjoying it so much why change anything? *I offered Kamran an extended loan of my ZBIT. This got me thinking if he asked to buy it would I sell it. I never installed it in my system. I borrowed my brothers ZBIT and have been playing it for a few hours, issue is I am using a his interconnects which have a different sound than mine... now I'm considering getting a pair of XLRs to see if it's the cable difference or the ZBIT. So I am messing with my system a smidge. If I had the cash sitting next to me right now demanding to be spent on the super rectifiers I'm not sure I would. I'm enjoying listening so much I would lose an hour of listening to try something different. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by johnnycopy on 09/12/23 at 02:20:12 Groovysauce, I had a failure with a pair of pvsane 300b’s last year in my coincident technology Frankenstein mk3 monoblocks Online I got in touch with folks who also run the same amp asking what they have run and liked. One fellow who I trust a lot Charlesdad1 has tried a large number of 300b’s and swore by both the sonics and reliability of the Eml xls tubes. I then followed up with my tube designer / builder who flat out specifically recommended the Eml xls to me. That sealed the deal. Following are some comments from Charlesdad1 I've had VAIC- EML XLS-KR XLS-Sophia Electric Royal Princess-Takasuki-Early generation Elrog and 1980s vintage Western Electric 300b. My verdict is There is no single absolute best choice amongst them. Too many variables that can favor one over another. Some of these tubes will sound better in one amplifier compared to another. The overall audio system "voicing " is a key factor. For my particular amplifier/audio system and ears the EML XLS has been ideal for me. I have used the EML XLS in my Frankensteins MK II for about 7 or 8 years band they are excellent! Very rugged construction and undeniably reliable. They sound splendid in this amplifier. |
Title: Re: Ultimate for tube rollers- External tube rectifier Post by CAJames on 09/12/23 at 04:28:29 Quote:
FWIW my online friends, who own more 300B tubes then I own socks, also like EML. I think the consensus is it is a notch below WE/Elrog/Takatsuki but sounds a lot like the WE, is well made and less expensive than the "big 3." |
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