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SPEAKER FORUMS >> Zen Master Series Loudspeakers >> Lii F15 negative youtube review
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Message started by Bernie on 05/17/23 at 21:52:40

Title: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by Bernie on 05/17/23 at 21:52:40

I saw this very negative review on the Lii F15 on youtube. This is the first negative review on any of the Lii speakers that I encountered.
I'm in the running for a pair of Betsy's or Zen Masters.
Could he be doing something wrong? Does he have broken or fake Lii speakers?
What would be your take on this?

https://youtu.be/In01m3rh8cI

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by ArtMan on 05/18/23 at 20:12:18

In my Denafrips/Decware system, using both the F15 and now the Fast15 in a Caintuck Audio baffle, he is not describing the sound of the speaker I hear on a daily basis. He provides no context of his room, the other components in his system or even how the speakers are mounted or placed. I distrust any review that does not provide some context of the entire system.

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by Same Old DD on 05/18/23 at 21:10:51

I did not want to state "The Obvious" too profoundly at first, but what he has reported sounds a lot like what mine sounded like right out of the box.

I actually hated them and thought they might be complete junk. I measured a bit.
They had an Fs well above 100Hz and the most peaky midrange I'd heard in a while. Zip for a top end.

I kept "the faith" in lessons learned from long ago and proceeded to beat the crapsnot out of them for a month.

Now, after many months of pleasure in listening, these are phenominal speakers and, even in my smallish 36" tall sandwich baffles, they sound really good. Literally miles from where they where they were when i unboxed them.

I almost wish I could (slap the guy?) help the fellow find out how to break in new drivers before assessing them.
Alas, he lost some of my respect during his raving diatribe.

I would recommend the F15 as an open baffle option to anyone. Get yourself a high quality subwoofer system for certain music and sit back.

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by RonP on 05/18/23 at 23:01:42

Mirroring what Same Old DD said:

Out of the box they were not a good listening experience. After around 20-30 hours it was a whole different game.

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by 4krow on 05/19/23 at 06:52:56

Funny. How many times have we been here. I can remember multiple drivers that I have owned that if I were to judge them out of the box, they would have been sent back immediately.
The best/worst example was set of Audio Nivana drivers, seems like they were 12" full range. Unbelievably bad sounding. Scary in fact. After, I dunno, maybe just a couple of hours, they sounded like different drivers. Still not good, but jeez, not screechy either.
Didn't have this experience with the FRX2 though. They sounded good out of the box and even better as time went on. even the drivers that I am presently running are great drivers, but have changed considerably in the bass and midrange.
What can I say about this guy? Well, I would give anything if he were better spoken. AHHH ummm II I II err, etc. crap, spit it out. Maybe some editing. I can't weigh his opinion like that, it was just difficult to get through.
Yah, unfortunately, the amount of detail for the review left out important info about the testing and his listening environment. i kind of laughed when he was describing some of measurements about treble. I am laughing at myself here because the rise that the treble seems to have would be great for my present hearing. 10 years ago, no way, but now, might just be what I need!
Probably so true with so many things in life, you just have to try it out yourself. That can be a real ass kicker, or one of the best purchases you have made. I have had a little of both.

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by Bernie on 05/19/23 at 09:22:25

Thanks guys, this confirms what I was thinking.
Where do you think this resistance to running in speakers comes from?

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by Same Old DD on 05/19/23 at 19:08:08

Another interesting point is if you read through a few of the comments, there were many people thanking him for FINALLY producing an "honest" review of these speakers.

Things like, and I'm paraphrasing several at once here:

... all the other reviews sound like infomercial ads for a dodgy skin cream or something. They just go on and on about how great these are.
I appreciate your unbiased real life, hands on approach and now that we know the true facts we won't make the same mistakes others who bought in to the hype fell for ... etc, etc, etc.

Sorry, but I just felt like adding his supporters' opinions to the cakemix of BS.

There are so many things that most of us take as Given in this hobby that a lot of folks try to poopoo and label as snake oil sales pitches.

Break-in is a real thing for any moving mechanism, as most people have understood since the earliest of tech raised its head. How many times have you picked up a new pair of pliers and worked them back and forth several times before using them?
You think the warriors of old did not have to dial in and make adjustments to a new trebuchet as the parts wore together a bit?
Even new tires on our car feel and sound better the next week.

So, Bernie, I can not understand why there would some resistance to a break in period for things that move.
Without getting too deep into the murky waters here, the movement does not have to be large or even noticeable to matter.

When I rebuilt the crossovers on an old set of studio monitors from the '70s, they sounded better right away, but after a few days of play they sounded even better and more relaxed, not that I can describe what that means.
I had three sets of almost identical JBL monitors to rebuild, so I believe what little Pride of Accomplishment Psychoacoustics I felt was possibly minimized through repeated results.

I also believe that until a person experiences this "run in" period in their own controlled circumstances for themselves, they will never get it.
One can accept that those with more experience can have a possibly more elevated conception of the finer notions and considerations of a particular indulgence, but to know it fully, you must experience it. I believe that and many have not yet done so.

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by 4krow on 05/19/23 at 19:22:26

Well, reading tests may be accurate to the actual parameter being tested, so we believe that first. It will be great to find what ever psychoacoustic phenomena is being missed, if in fact, that is what is going on. I have always suspected this to be the case.
When was it, back in the 1830's that a physicist declared that there was not really much more research to be done on the subject, since we already had all the material ever available. lets get to know the human brain a bit better, hoping to find some answers here. Differences in audio quality are likely lost from most grants, since we already got that covered, right?

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by Ghostship on 08/28/23 at 15:02:40

Not only did he not break them in, but he has admitted to purchasing fake drivers.

Title: Re: Lii F15 negative youtube review
Post by Maggieman on 03/04/24 at 10:30:57

The guy discusses his reference speaker he built on his youtube vlog.It's a boxed speaker using the Alpair 10.3 driver.
Sibelius uses this driver in their amazing speaker( although they say Markaudio did some alterations ).
I was able to listen to the Sibelius for an afterrnoon next to my Zenmaster copies.
Using Sugden A212 se amp,a tube amp and my beloved old Denon.
I can tell you I loved the Sibelius. Beautiful speaker. Amazing beautiful lows.
But I wouldn't trade my open baffled Lii F15's for a pair of Sibelius speakers. Because to be honoust I liked my Zenmasters more.