Forums
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> Vinyl >> Vinyl Preamp recommendation https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1699969527 Message started by Dominick on 11/14/23 at 13:45:26 |
Title: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by Dominick on 11/14/23 at 13:45:26 I’m looking for some advice on some Vinyl preamps. With Black Friday just around the corner, I was considering the ZP3 to take advantage of the discount. Some have indicated that it introduces a bit of hum. Yet others have said they are dead quiet… so I’m getting mixed signals. On a separate post someone had recommend to me the Lehman Audio Black Cube SE and said it was a big improvement over what they had. I know HockessinKid has the Modright Audio PH9.0 Preamp and absolutely loves it. With looking to upgrade my table…I’m not able to go that steep right now on a preamp. Right now I own the Rega Fono MKV Preamp that powers my Rega P2 with the Groovetracer sub platter and the stock Carbon Cartridge. Here’s the game plan…. I plan to sell my P2 sometime next year…and jump into the Rega P6 or P8. I really want the P8…so that is what I am leaning towards. I know that my Rega Fono preamp is not going to cut it, so hence the reason the post. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Dom |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by Lon on 11/14/23 at 13:50:49 Dom, I just ordered a ZP3 (this time with the Anniversary mods). I had one years ago but sold it to a forum member as I was not really listening to vinyl. Then I bought a PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter which I really like either using it's analog output, or even more so using its excellent ADC to convert to 64DSD and send that via I2S/HDMI to my DAC. It's a very good, clean phono preamp. I actually have two, one sitting on the shelf, just because. (Because I was sold on the ADC to DAC aspect). I think that the ZP3 is a bit better. . . and the main reason is tube-rolling. I just have gotten so addicted to being able to make big to subtle changes via tube-rolling and the wonderful characteristics of tubes. I wanted to be ahead of the Black Friday surge to the list, and I'm okay waiting three years or so for a ZP3 as I'm very happy with the sound of the PS Audio unit. That's my experience with phono preamps this century. I had a Hafler for some time in the 'nineties--it was good but not quite the level of those I've had recently. And I grew up with my Dad's Dynaco preamp, last heard in the early 'nineties. . . and a great rich sounding one. |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by Dominick on 11/14/23 at 14:17:44 Lon…..thanks for the advice. I’m ok with waiting the 3 years for the ZP3 if that’s what I decide to go with. I may do better with selling my P2 and the Fono MKV as a package, but that means that I would need to buy a preamp when I get the new turntable. Last year a used ZP3 became available…but I was in the middle of spending money on my white amps….so I had to pass on the deal. On a separate note…I find myself mainly listening to my Zen amps a lot more than my Torii. I have become engaged in the sound to the point where sometime a week or two will go by with the Torii not getting any play time. This saddens me terribly….since I really do love the Torii amp and the sound in its own right. I have also had thoughts of selling the Torii and buying the Sarah….so I have a bit of a conundrum going on. After now enjoying both your Zen monoblocks, and the Sarah….do you still miss the Monos? I love my mono’s…..and with 6 watts of power…I almost never feel that I am underpowered. The only thing I am missing is the tube rectification that my monos don’t have, that my Torii does have. Dom |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by HockessinKid on 11/14/23 at 14:39:14 Dom, FWIW I found my vinyl set up to be the trickiest part of the journey. So many options between TT, arm, cartridges phono preamps and cabling. So before you take the plunge on another Rega TT and a phono preamp do yourself a favor - do some listening. First I suggest heading to Audio Connection in Verona NJ. The owner John Rutan and his team excel in TT set ups and are very customer centric. This is where I got hooked on Audio. They have extensive experience with combinations that produce great sound. Second, set up an appointment to to visit VPI's House in Old Bridge NJ. There you can listen to some of their TT and phono preamp set ups. It will give you a feel for some of their offerings. Matt is a born salesman, so just ignore his hyperbole. Why? I realize vinyl set ups can be costly and while you're limited to a budget there is always the used equipment approach from reliable sellers. If you want to pursue a VPI TT talk with Steve Leung at Vinyl Audio Science (VAS). Steves business adjoins VPI's production facility neat Old Bridge. He does all of VPI's tonearm wiring, rebuilds cartridges and has a line of his own cartridges. Steve offered me a great deal on an old, NIB VPI Classic TT a couple years ago w/ his top of the line cartridge. He may still have some. I did not pursue one because I just love my Nottingham TT. Anyway I think the legwork and listening will serve you well., but of course it's your choice. If you plan on a lot of vinyl listening, your choice of TT - tonearm - cartridge combination will provide the foundation. You can always parcel purchases out to fit the budget. Just my two cents. Best of luck. HK |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by Lon on 11/14/23 at 16:24:50 Dom, I forgot to mention that I have a Rega RP3 that has all the Groovetracer mods--the Reference sub-platter, the Delrin platter, the counterweight and the record weight, and also the newest Rega top of the line belt, the TTPSU, and Exact2. One of my friends thinks it's at least like a R8 now. What I miss most about the Monoblocks with the Mods is. . .the treble cut circuit. I do fine without it but with some tubes and some recordings that adjustment would be a nice tool to still have. I loved the Monoblocks (which only had half hte watts yours do). .. the SEWE300B is a better fit for the HR-1 though, something I suspected but did not know for sure until the amp arrived and was broken in. And more and more as I learn how to tune the system with the SEWE300B it intrigues me how much they share the single-ended Decware sound (as Steve has noted)--so not much otherwise to miss. If your white amps are totally suited for your speakers (and I know they are a great match with the preamp) I think you have a great setup to build upon with matching internals, etc. I totally understand preferring the white amps to the Torii--that was my initial and lasting impression when I got back into the single-ended amps with the Taboo Mk IV and then the Monoblocks. |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by Dominick on 11/14/23 at 17:03:42 Hey Roger, Thanks for the sound advice. Ironically I had visited the Audio Connection like 7 years ago when I was looking at turntables. I believe you may have even told me about them at that time. The owner John wasn’t there but I dealt with this old guy Nick. The listening session started off good…but then he veered off and started trying to sell me amplifiers. When I told him about Decware….he wasn’t familiar with them. He then pulled it up online, did a bit of reading, and then started to compare the Decware amp line to the Quicksilver amps. Music was played thorough a pair of Vandersteens powered by the Quicksilver mono’s. The sound was very good…and the room was properly treated and dead quiet. I guess I need to head back over there and talk with the owner and arrange another listening session. I wonder if they would entertain me brining a pair of my Pinnacle PN6 bookshelf speakers. Back in the day they were considered good speakers. Bringing my own speakers would at least eliminate one variable, since I’m familiar with the sound signature. I will most definitely head over to VPI in Old Bridge to do some listening and speak with the guys there as well. I know a lot of guys on this forum love VPI, and I would definitely keep them as a top contender. I’m not locked in to Rega, but I am impressed with the sound I get from their entry level turntable. I think I would be better served with a better table as opposed to spending more money on going any further with upgrading what I have. The lack of vertical tracking force adjustment is a definite dealbreaker. If my current table had that functionality, I would maybe hold off. I totally agree with you that before I take the plunge, it would be best to do some listening. If only you lived a bit closer, I would hit you up for a listening session. I’ll keep you posted after I visit VPI and The Audio Connection. Dom |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by HockessinKid on 11/14/23 at 17:18:55 Dom, Always happy to have you visit if your heading south on I95. The Delaware beaches are very nice in the Summer and I know the owners of Dogfish Head Craft Brewery in Milton, DE if you like beer😊. HK |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by Sean on 11/14/23 at 18:00:43 For what it's worth my ZP3 is the best phono pre I've tried so far. I've gone from the Art DJ (great if you like to eat food wrapped in plastic), a Yaqin MS12, Jolida JD9 and multiple tiny little boxes and receivers over the years. Currently I don't feel the need or desire to look at other phono pre's. The ZP3 gets daily use here. Last night would be an exception, life turned upside down over the past week with BOTH parents in the ICU. I think everything is ok, but it's an enormous stress and last night I just wanted to sink into the chair and away from the world and not have to get up to change sides. Hope this post doesn't ramble incoherently. My current challenge is do I "need" a CSP or similar between the ZP3 and UFO. Some albums sound perfect, others are very loud without touching the volume. On a normal night I'll have the volume between 1/4 and 1/2, for me going past 1/4 opens things up and then at 1/2 it starts getting louder. Some albums I struggle to listen at 1/4, just too in my face. I've wondered if a pre would tame that. Lon made an excellent point of being able to control things a bt more with tube rolling. The ZP3 is very responsive to different tubes. Just like HockessinKid said, vinyl is the trickiest part. Just so many variables from the tip of the stylus all the way to the amp...it can be infuriating at times but when you hit the right setup it's very rewarding. As for hum, I don't have any currently. I did have a bit when I first got my Cinemag SUT, moving some things around got rid of it. Phono hum is one of the worst experiences and I'm glad I don't have to fight that fight like others have. Like others have offered, if you're ever near Pittsburgh just reach out and you can stop by for a listen. |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by Dominick on 11/14/23 at 18:19:26 Lon….yes I do get great sound out of my mono’s. My Err’s are like 2 dB’s less efficient than your HR-1’s, so the extra wattage with my mono configuration is needed. That’s good to know that your friend feels that your fully modded deck is comparable to the P8. Like I mentioned…..the lack of VTF on my deck is like a deal breaker. I kick myself not buying the P3, but the funds at the time were limited. HK…..you can bet that if I ever make my way down I95…I will be giving you a call. I have done some long trips….driving as far as Texas and Indiana….so a DE trip is a walk in the park. Sean….thanks for the invite. If I’m up in that area I’ll take you up on that offer. Glad that your ZP3 is quiet….good to know. To answer your question about if you need a preamp..…all I can say is that after taking my CSP out of the signal chain….there is no way in hell I can live without it. But one thing I can say…that when it comes to vinyl…having a ZROCK2 is just as vital in the signal chain as a preamp. I have some vinyl that just sounds thin….but the ZROCK2 can make a thin vinyl recording more pleasing to enjoy. It is all about synergy and dialing in your components to suit your liking, and after owning both a preamp and the ZROCK2….I couldn’t live without either of them. Dom |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by armstdav on 11/15/23 at 05:38:00 Dominick, Like HockessinKid I've ended up at the Modwright PH 9.0 (mine is the X version) after a long journey through various phono preamps. I've never heard a ZP3 but I have no doubt it's terrific based on owning other Decware equipment. If you're looking for something to tide you over during the very long wait for a ZP3, I can highly recommend the E.A.T E-Glo Petit, which can be had for less than $1K if you're patient. It's close to the Modwright at 1/3 the price used, especially if you spring for some nice 12AX7s. Vinyl is a process, and it takes some time to reach your goals. It's so worth it! David |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by Dominick on 11/15/23 at 13:11:40 Thanks David. The Modright PH seems like a clear winner. I have to really think hard about this one because there is a part of me that would rather hold off and wait to buy a piece like the Modright as opposed to climbing the audio chain. HockessinKid gave me a lead on a nice VPI turntable. I’ll see where that goes, but I need to come up with a game plan on where I want to end up. Thanks Dom |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by TexJ on 06/22/24 at 01:31:17 I got impatient and got a Don Sachs Phono Stage One. I am sure the Decware phono stage is going to be great. I’m on a business trip and I just purchased it so I can’t speak about the sound quality yet. |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by hdrider on 06/22/24 at 01:48:36 TexJ - When you do get Don's phono stage up and running (and some hours) please post your thoughts on it. I have looked at it, but already having our ZP3...I just look. Our Decware gear isn't going anywhere but part of the illness is all the looking and reading about what others have and enjoy. Happy listening, Chris. |
Title: Re: Vinyl Preamp recommendation Post by TexJ on 06/22/24 at 02:44:21 Will do. |
Forums » Powered by YaBB 2.2.2! YaBB © 2000-2008. All Rights Reserved. |