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AUDIO FORUMS >> Digital >> Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
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Message started by TexJ on 12/28/23 at 02:09:24

Title: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by TexJ on 12/28/23 at 02:09:24

I've read the warm (no pun intended) reviews for DACs like Denafrips which adds warmth to the sound.

I am curious if anyone has paired a colorless DAC & preamp upstream from their Decware amp? Specifically I am curious about Benchmark's DACs and line amps upstream from a Decware amp and how it sounds vs any DAC & preamp which adds to the sound.

Merry Christmas everyone. - J

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by CAJames on 12/28/23 at 15:30:12

I'm familiar with Benchmark's DACs by reputation, but I've never heard one in real life. And I can't think of any of the usual posters around here who have one, although I may very well be wrong. I'll say this in general, there is no reason you can't build a satisfying system around Decware and any high quality DAC, but your satisfaction is going to depend on your taste and the rest of your system including your room. Let me give you (briefly) my digital journey as an example.

Before I discovered Decware I had a fully Stereophile approved system (Audio Research and Pass Labs) that I thought was pretty much last word in transparency. And I had what I thought was a nice DAC/SACD player for digital, specifically a Yamaha CD S2100. But when I got my UFOs I was blown away by how much more transparent and resolving they were then my previous amp, and they started to show the limitations of my digital front end. Not that there were obvious problems, it was more that the Yamaha (which was a little on the warm side) wasn't a good as I thought. What sounded like "smooth analog detail" on my previous system was really a digital veil, what I think of as "air-brushed detail" with the higher resolution Decware amps. This lead me to a massive upgrade of my digital front end, which you can see in my sig. And it has held up very well, esp. after recently replacing my UFOs with UFO25s, that are even more transparent and resolving.

So it isn't about "warm" IMO (and I would quibble with the idea that Denafrips adds warmth). If you have a Decware amp you have a lot of control over "warm" by the tubes you choose. It is about synergy between your different components and your room, and what Steve calls the weak link(s) in your system. Because with a Decware amp you will hear the rest of your system like you never have before, for better or for worse.

HTH.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by Lon on 12/28/23 at 15:46:37

I would echo what James says about the amps' transparency and revealing all the other components and pieces in your system. The Decware amps are not "warm" by nature. Tube rolling can add some warmth, and you can roll away from a warm sound as well.

I had a similar journey to James and went with zigs and zags til I found my PS Audio DACs and transports which my Decware components reveal to be "just right" for my taste and rooms.

I have not heard Benchmark DACs either. They have a good reputation and interestingly (probably why you ask) are said to be very neutral in character.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by TexJ on 12/28/23 at 16:45:09

Thanks for both of your responses. This Decware (Torii Jr) is going to be my first tube amp.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by JMeader on 12/28/23 at 17:17:57

I have the Torii Jr V2 as of mid year 2023.

I found getting a Schit Freya S ( non tube ) was a benefit due to increased gain it provides my Torii Jr V2. This combo has more than enough volume and remote volume control - normal is less than 50% on the Freya S and my Torii at 50% volume

I recently added A Pontus 2 12th-1 Dac The overall combo provides a great sound stage, with depth and clarity.

My source is a Win 10 PC using Audirvana Studio ( USB connection to Pontus) which receives up-scaled digital data stream

Your Torii Jr V2 will need 2-300 hours to settle in - I used a play list at low volume to accomplished this. BTW the Pontus 2 needed about the same time to settle also

Be sure and let us all know as you enjoy your new amp

The best part of Decware Products is you get to Enjoy the music versus worrying about your system :)

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by TexJ on 01/08/24 at 02:20:56

There are too many positive reviews for the Pontus for me to ignore. I just have to bite the bullet and get a preamp too. I plan on pairing this set up with the new Caladans. Can't wait.

J

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by CAJames on 01/08/24 at 03:24:55

I think you'll be very happy with the Pontus. Keep us posted as your system comes together.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by Tony on 01/08/24 at 05:18:38

I want to jump in with James, as a Pontus owner myself, I consider it as one of my best buys. I am sure you will like it 👍 Good luck with the system!

Tony

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by TexJ on 04/27/24 at 03:29:12

So I haven't said no to the Pontus but I have another system. This other system has a streamer directly feeding a Denafrips Apollo amp. Since I have another year to wait for my Decware amp, I went ahead and got the Benchmark Dac 3 L. I wanted to add subs to the other system so I had to purchase a preamp set up. The DAC 3L comes with enough audio outs to make this happen. I'll let y'all know how it performs.

I can't use high level input with the Denafrips amp, this limited my options.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by CAJames on 04/27/24 at 15:34:30

That's very interesting. I know a lot of (on-line) people with Denafrips DACs but I don't remember anyone with an amp. I would imagine your 3L will sound really nice with the Apollo amp.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by TexJ on 05/11/24 at 01:04:45

(Benchmark DAC 3L) Early phase of the break in period but I'm already noticing a big difference from day one. I have Focal floor standing speakers on the back end. The bass has nearly disappeared from the previous set up. I think it's a break in issue but if it doesn't come back I will definitely add subs. Before it was optional, but now it's probably a requirement.

The highs and especially the mids are more defined this is probably what's leaving the low end back.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by CAJames on 05/11/24 at 06:29:02

I hope it is a break in issue because I would be pretty unhappy if my new DAC forced me to go buy more stuff because it is missing something I had previously. A possible alternative, depending on your digital source(s), would be to use digital EQ to add back the bass you are missing. I know several people online who do this, and to me it makes more sense than adding a sub to speakers that had enough bass before the new DAC. But JMO/FWIW/YMMV and all that.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by Tommy Freefall on 05/13/24 at 17:13:17

Tex,
I have the Benchmark DAC3 HGC that I use with my Decware amps (Torii, Rachael). Before purchasing a while back I also considered the Pontus, but I like detail, and I wanted to minimize coloring the sound.

I really love this little DAC-pre amp - headphone amp.
I get plenty of bass with mine - so much in fact that I don't need my ZRock in my system when using it.

Perhaps the Benchmark is not matching up well with your Denefrips amp.
Have you tried playing with the gain settings on the DAC3?

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by TexJ on 05/20/24 at 19:35:38

I think it was a pairing issue. My problem is I have 9-10 (best guess) months until I get my Torii Jr. The customer service is fantastic, they wanted me to move the jumpers to 10 or 20 to try to match the amp. I couldn't do it since I was about to leave on an extended business trip so I had it sent back.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by TexJ on 07/11/24 at 02:53:09

The great DAC search is over. I ordered a Pontus II 12th anniversary DAC.

That took a while.

Title: Re: Colorless vs color added DAC paired with Decware
Post by Gilf on 07/11/24 at 03:24:43

Keep us posted. I am interested in your results.

My audio buddies keep insisting on me having gadgets. Over the last year I had an Ares II and Pontus II on loan, and most recently a friend is on vacation and loaning his Holo May. I have not been impressed with any of them and prefer how musical my Cambridge CXNv2 is directly into my UFO25. The external DACs are by no means warm. The sound is perhaps transparent at the fault of being slightly bright and clinical, and I find the soundstage to be quite dense, to the point of being condensed and slightly smaller.

I find room treatment and a simple signal path to be a better investment and more enjoyable. But many folks here have found great enjoyment in the these DACs, with many rave reviews of the Pontus. Everyone has different tastes, rooms, and power, and is on a different journey. Keep us posted with your impressions.