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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1715123903 Message started by bruinuclafan on 05/08/24 at 00:18:23 |
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Title: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/08/24 at 00:18:23 Hello all, I'm new to the forums. Thanks to a fellow forum member, I am soon to be the owner of a Torii Jr. v2. I am building out a second system for my office and it's going to look like this: Rega P6 (Hana ML) to Sutherland KC Vibe mkii to Torii Jr. v2 to ? I'm looking for bookshelf speakers for this system and am interested in the group's thoughts on speakers that will work well with the Torii. I'd like to keep the cost under 2k and am more than happy to buy used. Thanks in advance! |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by HiFi Bri on 05/08/24 at 00:36:19 Congrats! A few questions: How big is your room? Will the speakers be positioned on stands or on a shelf? If you have the speakers close to the wall on a book shelf, you may want something front ported. I'm also rocking a Rega/Hana/Decware system and highly recommend Omega Loudspeakers - especially for small to medium sized rooms. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/08/24 at 00:45:02 Small room, and I'll be sitting fairly close to the speakers (probably 6 ft away). The speakers will be on a kallax pretty close to the wall. I will check out Omega speakers, thanks! |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Donnie on 05/08/24 at 00:51:38 I’d look at Decware’s DM 945 |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by CAJames on 05/08/24 at 03:14:09 I think there are several Decware bookshelf speakers that would be excellent choices: Tube Tots, T6 etc. Look at the speaker page on the site if you haven’t already. P.S. USC fan since 1969, but my wife went to UCLA so I hope we can still be friends 
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Hearafter on 05/08/24 at 03:46:18 Used Fritz Monitors are just an amazing speaker. Especially the models with Scan Speak drivers. New would be over your budget but worth every $. I picked up his Rev5 SE for $1400 about a year agofor my second system. My older brother went to UCLA the Wooden Walton era. I was always a UCLA BB and football fan not USC and their annoying band fight song that never ends🤣 |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/08/24 at 05:58:25 Thanks guys! Go Bruins! We can still be friends James--nobody's perfect :) |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by kulafu on 05/11/24 at 02:29:19 CA James! Go Trojans! You got a friend in me. Class of 83. Bob |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by kulafu on 05/11/24 at 02:30:34 I second Omega SAMs or DECWARE T6. You can find a used Omega at a good price. Bob |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by CAJames on 05/11/24 at 06:17:05 Quote:
Fight on! But I will say this: I love my SAMs, but they are big and IMO need to be well away from the back wall to work their magic. If the OP needs something close to the wall I’d go with something smaller, or even better talk to Louis and get his opinion. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Tony on 05/11/24 at 15:00:48 I was in the same situation regarding speakers a couple of years ago. I took James' advice then, found a secondhand pair of Omega (SAMs) speakers online, and now consider that purchase one of the best ones I have ever made. My neighbor has the Decware T6s; I could compare them in my room for about a week while she was away. They, too, sound tremendous but less satisfying than the Omega. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/12/24 at 05:37:19 I do need to be close to the wall unfortunately. This will be far from an optimal setup. I'm looking at the Zu DWX actually. Front ported and are marketed with the idea that they will not be placed optimally. The proof will be in the pudding but with 60 days to try them not much downside. Omega still in the running though! |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by CAJames on 05/12/24 at 05:49:51 If you are serious about Omega speakers I highly recommend setting up a call with Louis to discuss your situation and see what he recommends. I bought my SAMs “off the rack” but he has been very helpful with solutions for many people. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Dominick on 05/12/24 at 14:28:58 Lots of good recommendations from forum members. I’m going to go a different path here… since you are building out a second system, have you considered a really good pair of headphones? I’m sitting here as I write this post listening to Bocelli’s “Sogno” Album on my Grado 1000’s and it’s a great experience. If you own a CSP that doubles as a headphone amp…you are good to go. When I hear “office setup”….I foresee the room acoustics becoming a limiting factor for you experiencing great sound. The best part about headphones, is that it almost completely takes room acoustics out of the equation. You will get great detail….especially though your vinyl rig and your new Jr. I picked mine up used for under $700 and it was a great investment. I can’t believe I went as long as I did without them. There are a lot of great headphones out there, and I went with the Grado’s based off of a forum members recommendation, and it was a home run. If can audition a Decware system through a good set of headphones, I would give it a try. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Tommy Freefall on 05/12/24 at 16:29:04 Hey Bruin, If you pull the trigger on those Zu DWXs, keep us posted on your thoughts. I'm also highly interested in them for a small room, nearfield situation with my Tori Mk IV. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by mrchipster on 05/12/24 at 22:40:56 bruinuclafan, I agree that there is good advice here. I don't own Omega's, but I've only heard good things about them. Having to place the speakers close to the wall limits it a little but I think you're on the right track with a front ported speaker. I haven't heard the new Zu DWX bookshelves, but I do own two pairs of Zu's. I own the Omen MkII-B floor standers (12 ohm, 97db efficiency) which have the same drivers and tweeters as the DWX it looks like. I was really happy with them and used them for about 5 years before I decided to upgrade to the Soul Supreme's (16 ohm, 101db efficiency). I imagine the DWX with the same drivers as the Omens would have a close sound signature to the Omens and something I think may fit well with your system. If you can spring for the superfly or supreme upgrade for the DWX it may be worth it and would roughly stay in your budget. The Soul Supremes were a definite upgrade to the Omens since they use different drivers and internals. The 'supreme' upgrade of the DWX doesn't turn it into the Soul Supreme since the drivers don't change in the DWX with the upgrade but with the size and heft (40+ lbs.) of the DWX make them a very compelling choice. I think the Zu's prefer some power behind them and your Torii will make them really sing and give all they have. You will probably get more slam from them than you could imagine once they're broken in. I have my Soul Supremes paired with the UFO25 and although the Torii has much more power, the UFO25 gives me great sound but can't slam as hard as my old 100w sand amp. It also doesn't achieve high SPL levels, but I knew that going in when I decided on the low power/high efficiency route. What I gave up in slam and high SPL (I still get about 82-85db peaks at listening position) I got back in spades with tone, frequency balance, soundstage, and accurate definition of instruments in timbre and space. I would actually like to hear what the Souls sound like with a Torii. I think it would be exceptional. I went with the SET and I'm extremely happy with it. Of course, I can't help but think 'what if'. Good luck with your choice and keep us posted. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/16/24 at 04:52:59 Hey guys, thanks again for the info. I got the DWX speakers in today. I really like the sound, though they are a little bigger than I was expecting! However, I am having a somewhat unanticipated problem. I have a low hum that is audible when the speakers are not playing music. The hum starts maybe 5 seconds or so after turning on the Zen Torii Jr. v2. I tried swapping out the input tubes and even the rectifier tube, but it makes no difference. The hum remains constant no matter what I do to the volume of the Torii. I'm guessing this is a ground loop issue that is perhaps exacerbated by having very efficient speakers? I would very much appreciate any tips on how to deal with this. It is essentially inaudible while playing a record so not the end of the world, but I'd like to solve it if I can. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by CAJames on 05/16/24 at 06:15:29 If you disconnect your source(s) and the hum goes away then you have a ground loop (most likely). There are a bunch of ideas for dealing with a ground loop: on the site, probably in your manual and on the internet in general. It isn’t convenient for me to do links ATM, but look around, they are easy to find. If it doesn’t then there is something else good on. Maybe bad AC power, or EM noise. It might just be the inherent hum from your amp as well. How much time do you have on your amp? If it is new the tubes probably need some time to break in. New tubes can be noisy for anywhere from a few to a few dozen hours. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/16/24 at 06:34:00 The hum is constant even with the sources all unplugged from the amp. I did some searching in the forums and I have a few ideas to try. I'll update after I try. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/20/24 at 21:15:16 I've tried a few things now. I swapped out the I put tubes, the rectifier tube, and the power tubes (all one at a time). Nothing changed the hum at all. I also tried swapping the output tubes to see if there was an issue with the matched pair. Also no change. I bought an iFi DC blocker. That also did not change anything. I also unplugged all components aside from the speakers to check for another component causing the ground loop, but the hum was still there. So I'm stumped now as to what to do. The hum really isn't that big a deal and I can't hear it over the music, but with no music I can hear it anywhere in the room. It's weird, the hum starts about 10 seconds after turning on the amp. I wonder if the speakers are picking up some buzzing from the amps transformers? I'm probably give Decware a call this week and see what they say. On the bright side, the amp is wonderful and I love the sound I am getting from the Zu DWX. The bass response is good from them, and this was my biggest worry given that I will not be adding a sub in this room. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Donnie on 05/20/24 at 22:43:36 My money is on speaker wires. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by CAJames on 05/20/24 at 22:51:44 Quote:
That sounds like about the time it takes the tubes to warm up. Picking up hum seems like a longshot, but try moving the speaker cables around and see if the hum changes at all. You said you bought the amp used, did it go to Decware to be checked out and the warranty transferred to you? It sounds like you have an usually "loud" amp, and talking to Steve is always a good choice. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/21/24 at 00:00:05 Is there a way to check if it is the speaker wires? I fiddled with them a bit it didn't change anything. The amp was not sent to Decware for a warranty transfer when I purchased it. If I did send it in I would do that, but I'm not sure I want to spend the money at this point. But I'll talk to Steve for sure. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Dana on 05/21/24 at 01:11:02 another inexpensive check is a 3 prong to 2 prong adapter. I use them and I'm still here. (I actually lived in an old house that only had 2 prong sockets and had to use them). I personally believe that stuff sounds better without the all the hash on the common ground but YMMV |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Donnie on 05/21/24 at 02:45:16 Go buy some cheap speaker wire from Lowe’s or a place like that. The stuff that is more insulation than wire. Cut it as short as you can get away with. Also make the exposed leads as short as possible. See if that helps you, if it does, start shopping for new speaker cable. If not you won’t be out much money. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by MikeinMontana on 05/21/24 at 16:03:33 Dana~ We have three subs in the family room. Took forever to get bass to sound decent/good in large, wide open and tall room. Used for the 5.3 system. One sub is the original, front firing Hsu Vtf-3. So many years now. Purchased new in 2003! Love this one. It actually came with a 3-2 prong adapter in box for those that had a slight hum with theirs in home. Ours did and has been quiet using the adapter since brand new. I have heard some folks say that plug adapters are such a bad idea, but I am sticking with what has worked perfectly fine forever now too.... and it sounds fantastic with the UFO too! I swap cables, switch crossover IN , and bring level down a bit with that one when going back/forth to the 5.3. That sub sits in the front corner and is easy to get to. Just played Dire Straits, Love Over Gold SACD (Mofi) last night...again.. :D Amazing~ All the best to ya~ Mike |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by mrchipster on 05/21/24 at 17:29:33 bruinuclafan, I know Steve in the past has mentioned that there can be some inherent hum from the amps and efficient speakers can make it a little more obvious. He also mentioned that it's not typically obvious from the listening position but only heard when putting your ear in front of the speaker. That's exactly what happens in my case. I get a hum from the transformer through the speakers as well but once my ear is 8 or more inches from the driver I can't hear it. I can hear the transformer hum when I'm standing over the amp as well, but only slightly. The hum does not change with increase in volume or any gain increase along my audio chain so that's good. I'm just calling this my base line hum. Do you hear hum from the transformer when you're standing close to the amp? (or maybe it's impossible to tell since the hum is being amplified through the speakers) Sorry to hear that the changes you made haven't improved the situation (tubes, wires, etc.) but as Donnie mentioned, you could try the inexpensive speaker wire experiment as well as moving power cords out of the way, etc. One other thing I'll mention is on this forum I've heard it discussed that sometimes one of the internal fuses can blow and wreak havoc with the sound while the amp still seems to operate fine. I forget if it was a hum or buzz they spoke about but maybe if it's easy enough you can check the internal fuses. Otherwise, it seems like the amp may have an above average amount of transformer hum. Hopefully when you talk to Steve, he can help you narrow it down. Good luck and keep us posted. Glad to hear the DWX are working out and I think you'll be even more impressed when they finally break in / burn in. They go down deep, and the Torii should make sure of that. Enjoy. |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by Steve Deckert on 05/21/24 at 19:48:20 Quote:
First thing I would like to throw out here is that our simple rule is that if you don't hear hum from the listening chair, 'it doesn't hum'. Setting the hum level in an amplifier during it's design phase is a balancing act against dynamics. More hum, more dynamics, less hum, less dynamics. This is why there is a low level background hum present with sensitive speakers. It is by design and ensures the sound is good. Without it, the soft would be softer and less dynamic, less fast, more like everyone else's hifi crap. Whoops, I thought that out loud didn't I? Second, if a rectifier fuse blows the hum can be heard across the house. What hasn't been mentioned here is that in a push pull amplifier like the TORII and ZMA, the output tubes have to be matched pairs. The tighter the match the less hum there will be. Steve : ) |
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Title: Re: Soon-to-be Decware Owner - Help me choose speakers Post by bruinuclafan on 05/24/24 at 00:18:18 Thanks for the reply Steve! I do hear the hum anywhere in the room. I hope we can connect by phone in the coming weeks. In any case, I'm really happy with the amp and the sound I'm getting. |
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