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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> Vinyl >> DECCA cartridges https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1715718334 Message started by Steve Deckert on 05/14/24 at 21:25:33 |
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Title: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 05/14/24 at 21:25:33 We hope to be testing some new DECCA products this year! I've been in contact with the owner of DECCA on many occasions and getting excited about new things that might come from that company. You know me, any time old school stuff remains unbeatable I enjoy it. So far my vintage Decca London Gold is getting about 50/50 playtime against my Fidelity Research FR7f. The Decca I have has been getting swapped between the Audiocraft and Mayware tonearms and I'm still not sure which one sounds better! I'll keep you posted! Steve |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Geno on 05/15/24 at 01:10:47 This is exciting Steve. I have done a bunch of research on their carts, since you originally posted about yours. I will anxiously wait for developments. |
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Title: Re: DECCA's new cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/06/24 at 23:25:47 Well the good news is the cartridge has landed! Fresh from DECCA the London Reference Gold with a rare para-tracer tip, special coils, special magnets make it basically the first one of its kind.  Steve : ) |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/06/24 at 23:34:59 If you are unfamiliar with these legendary cartridges, they are still completely un-copied in the cartridge world so far as I know. What makes it unique is that there are 3 coils instead of 4 and the cantilever is special. It is not made from ruby or any other exotic material that makes hi-end cartridges so expensive, Instead it has eliminated the cantilever from the design altogether as well as the rubber boot that damps out much of the vibration coming up the cantilever.  Here is how it works...  |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/06/24 at 23:43:36 Also you should know that DECCA will have their own tonearms setup perfectly for the cartridges. That means they are dead serious about getting it right. The science of mass placement and centers of gravity, horizontal and vertical damping, arm tube resonance, just to name a few will have an ideal relationship for every cartridge and that doesn't even get into the magic and mystery of uni-pivot tone arms that DECCA cartridges like. So God bless them for taking the headache out of tonearm shopping and cartridge matching. Their new arms will be superior to anything you can purchase for these cartridges, no question. And the arm has also arrived!  |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/06/24 at 23:44:49  |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by cmdc on 06/07/24 at 01:08:36 So, does this mean Decca is licensing the Moerch arms, or will the Decca arm come later? I love the Moerch DP6, and the DP8 has been at the top of my wish list for a long while now. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by bloodlemons on 06/07/24 at 03:13:44 Wow. This is cool news! |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/07/24 at 18:33:25 I don't know the details yet, but I do know that the cartridge was sent to Moerch who then set up the arm specifically for the 2024 Decca London Reference with the para-tracer tip. I have the arm up and it actually tracked the 100us lateral tracking test on ortofon test record. Pretty impressive. Quoting from the tone arm manual "The purpose of the design is to obtain excellent audio reproduction at low frequencies, where the horizontal movement of the tonearm must be restricted - but also to ensure perfect tracking by not restricting the vertical movement - is the essence of the Moerch DP-8."   |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Kahuna Jack on 06/07/24 at 19:04:41 So you are replacing a 'budget' arm ( FR or AC ) with a $5k +++ ( I'm guessing / could not find retail price on gold 12" arm ) tonearm ?? Analog Warrior you are ! Just the thought alone of setting that Moerch arm up sends me into " need a nap mode " lol |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Geno on 06/07/24 at 22:10:55 Quote:
I was thinking the same thing. It would be wonderful to have this setup, but as hard as it can be to simply set up a cartridge correctly, I cannot begin to imagine replacing my tonearm, as well as the cart. Gives me a headache just thinking about it. And the price of this entire configuration (quite expensive, I'm sure) is something else, again. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/08/24 at 02:04:48 Yes, when I looked into the tonearm box there was a certain amount of dread... but then I saw that the instructions were very complete and very well written, leaving nothing out and it gave me hope. Once I actually began putting it together I was astounded how painless it actually was. Beyond that I was blown away by the quality and the engineering behind it, which all becomes clear as you are setting it up. It makes the Mayware formula 4 seem like a toy. It has so far been easier to properly set up and use than the Audiocraft. On this particular arm, you can adjust the VTA and the anti-skate while you listen : ). That right there has been two of my biggest fantasies when it comes to tonearms.  See those side weights with the offset holes? If the weights are situated so that the center of gravity is above the shaft it improves the sound stage. I tried it, it works. Azimuth can be adjusted internally and independently of the weights so you don't have to rock the arm one way or the other like you do on other uni-pivots. I used to think I had a pretty good intuition for physics but the gentleman who designed this is WAY beyond anything I could have come up with. When you study this design for any length of time it becomes obvious that a genius made it. Then when you hear it, it becomes obvious that these subtle but ingenious things and the execution actually have a very profound way of affecting the sound. Look, the Decca London Reference cartridge is better than anything that the company has ever made and we want to hear it without any handicaps. The sound of this cartridge is well worth the trouble. Steve |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/08/24 at 02:32:33 The side weights create inertia that is graduated with silicon damping to counteract the force of heavy or ultra dynamic bass passages from throwing the needle off the wall of the groove. If not literally throwing the needle off the wall than lessening the contact pressure against the groove wall during transients. This highly active counter pressure against horizontal movement from the groove wall was claimed to be only a benefit to deep bass but I have to wonder if it doesn't make the entire bandwidth better. But then if that wasn't enough -- to have the weight rotations (not position) affect the sound stage is in my opinion what takes the design of this tonearm to a spiritual level. Has the signature of the Audio Gods all over it. Steve |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by London Decca on 06/08/24 at 03:42:38 Hello friends, I'm happy to be here. Over a period of time I'll address our relationship with our friends at Moerch Tonearms and other surprises we have in store for the Decware Community. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Sai on 06/09/24 at 03:40:12 Super excited to follow this thread! Is the tonearm a 10” or 12” arm? Just curious for my Nottingham Analogue TT that requires a 12” arm…. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Kahuna Jack on 06/09/24 at 04:14:07 Box label has the 12" box checked. I'm pretty sure the arm tubes are interchangeable if its a stock DP8. Could be a special treat for all of those who attend Decfest |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/09/24 at 04:27:09 This cartridge and arm combo is JUST SICK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God help us all. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/09/24 at 04:28:19 Actually you will all hear it at this years Decfest. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/09/24 at 04:39:22 I am flexing its muscles on Infected Mushroom and really the human language is simply inadequate to describe the sound I am hearing. I honestly didn't know this was possible. My DACS just shit themselves. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/09/24 at 05:41:20 So as I continue to listen, I can't believe the cutting lathes are this good. Seriously. The cartridge is low output... I have it running through a moving magnet step up transformer for 6dB of free gain and 6 hits of acid for what it does to the soundstage... and even after that it is still just shy in output level of the vintage Decca that I also used the same transformer with so I get to turn the Sarah 300B amp all the way up to play at an appropriately loud level for the music at hand... And that takes the volume pots completely out of the signal path and lets the input stage fully express itself. Another holy crap moment. The new holy grail, Decca London Reference, ZMM, ZP3, SARAH300B fully cranked on 100dB speakers... Listening level where I sat A weighted was 92.5 DB average. Just hard to wrap my head around because this is in master tape territory and beyond due to the magic of cartridges and LP's. I think it's Gods way of showing off. Should be impossible to get anything close to good sound dragging a needle through a groove... it's so physical... |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Kahuna Jack on 06/09/24 at 18:04:49 Have you thrown it a curve or knuckle ball ?? with different groove geometries ? Once I get things to a happy place I always toss it a test to try and disappoint myself. Its just my nature. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Brian on 06/10/24 at 02:32:05 " Should be impossible to get anything close to good sound dragging a needle through a groove... it's so physical..." Hee Hee Hee! |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/10/24 at 15:39:31 I set it up on a Loefgren A / Baerwald DIN tangential curve. My small library contains a lot of older records (pre 1980's) that the curve favors, but the curve also does well with modern pressings. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/15/24 at 03:02:41 As the burn-in progresses I am noticing things are becoming even more articulate. So far I have thrown about 20 albums at it and it has tracked everything with perfection. I am finding the adjustable VTA is a valuable tool since record thickness varies and sometimes depending on how a record was cut, I like to run a steeper rake angle to excavate the highs and on other pressings a touch less to mellow everything out. This could always be done with the other tone arms manually but never with this precision and never on the fly, so basically worthless because you're not going to manually adjust it for every record. The adjustable anti-skate is great as well. You can hear when you get it in the pocket. This cartridge and the vintage one, both do not like much anti-skate. So this is something that will rarely get adjusted once you find the magic setting. However, some of the more aggressive 45 RPM pressings that are hugely dynamic will affect the side force and probably require a small tweak to the anti-skate. That is not to say it is required, no... it is to say that for those hunting for the last 2% this is an easy adjustment to find it. I was told 50 hours minimum, so I will wait until then and then make some videos of this ass kicking combo.  Just an observation, DECCA made some of the best sounding LP's ever pressed. At the same time they made a cartridge using a bold and still never copied technology. My guess is it has been tried by other cartridge manufactures but found too difficult to be highly profitable. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Kahuna Jack on 06/15/24 at 16:56:04 " you're not going to manually adjust it for every record " I've met and seen a few audiophiles in my journey who have had drawers full of carts/headshells with sticky notes on them for different LP's even different tracks on same LP along with mat(thickness) changes , EQ/RIAA settings , notes like ' hot strings ' ' tame horns ' etc..... I knew I would never have the patience and dedication or even the deep pockets required for that commitment. Its a lot of work. I admire those who have that type of stamina and focus. |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/16/24 at 04:58:00 Tonight I got out a worthy reference, the most dynamic and layered LP I probably own, a 45RPM pressing of Flim & the BB's Tricycle.  This DECCA London Reference (2024) cartridge balanced the experience in a new way and as a result I heard the most amazing depth I have ever heard, and certainly had no idea it was on this record. Yes, knew it was good, reference good, but... now I am again stunned at the level of detail and sound stage insanity, the depth, the depth, the decay, the depth.... Holy crap batman, this cartridge may have low output but -- you can see how the pyramids were built while you listen to music. It's just insane. This arm and this cartridge are beginning to come across as the master of balance, in every dimension. A transducer that focuses energy directly into the mind which expands it/ multiplies its perception abilities to where you are hearing so deep that it starts to transcend the human experience. Not a near death experience, an out of body experience. Where you become the music. This is the perfect ZEN cartridge/arm combo so far... it is Yin and Yang that results in a very un-indoctrinated and unbiased presentation of whatever is actually there. It is a bridge to higher consciousness and higher perception. Honestly, this is the absolute reference cartridge and tonearm ever to come from Decca, think about that... and frankly for the 6 figure price I was completely ready to rip it to shreds, being a point of diminishing returns kinda guy, but damn... I honestly think it is worth selling the boat for. I really do. Way more ROI with this. WAY MORE.  You can think of it like a microscope showing you the macro detail of the music and more importantly the room and the space it was created in, as they all become intertwined.  This (above) is what I heard before... This (below) is what I hear now...  No wait a minute... my mind didn't have the neurons to process it... give it a minute... there. That's it. This is what I am hearing now...  See, you can clearly and without fantasy see the shape of the diamond. It is effortless. Before it was impossible. Now in fairness, this is not possible without DECWARE caliber gear. I know it cheapens the post but, seriously it is true. You would never NEVER hear the last image with any lessor gear... I can promise you that. It's not ego, it's physics. It's old school. If you think a 72 monte carlo is old school, the pyramids are old school. They did shit that modern humans can't even imagine which is why they are still a mystery and will remain so for quite some time. It is about how deep can you hear into the recording. It really is all about that. With the complete absence of artifacts like grain and dryness it is possible to listen for many hours in a trance like state and morph yourself into a state of bliss that can only happen in the human experience on this and nearly identical planets. It is frikin special. It is NOT experienced through a plastic boom box unless your mind can transcend the limitation and find a memory of the hires experience to draw upon. Sorry to get so deep but this shit IS deep. It is powerful. It goes against all the things that are negative in this world. Music is GOD and I don't want to experience it with a veil, smear, distortion, or separation from the truth. It is a reflection of ourselves in the human experience that is universally priceless and believe it or not by some miracle it is able to be stored and released across time in the form of 'recording and playback'. You know when it triggers a philosophical diatribe like this it must sound pretty f'in good. -Steve |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by London Decca on 06/17/24 at 00:57:11 Hello Steve and Decware lovers, After reading what Steve has been writing it gives me great pleasure in knowing that we have achieved our goals with the relaunch of the London Reference cartridge. We are all about SYNERGY and all the great things music offers. Musical instruments have some many colors we are trying to paint with a cartridge. Our first goal was to restore the Reference from the ground up. We looked at everything inside and out with the goal of improving the build and not take away from the organics of the original London Reference. We took price out of the restore and focused on the passion we have for the brand. After a year we felt we were ready for real time and I knew just the right guy who I would love to play with it. We felt we were almost there and have Steve take it for a spin. We wanted to get the most out of the organic sound of the restored Decca cartridges so that meant we needed to address another very important part of the puzzle the TONEARM. This was a long process in its own right. We first started moving forward building our own but the process would turn out to be a long process. So I went after tonearms I really liked over the years and started the listening process. Finally the Moerch came into the picture and wow this was the closest we have gotten with the sound we had in mind. So we have formed a marketing partnership that will benefit our owners. When We sell either the DP8 or the UP6 ( more coming soon on the Decca mod of the UP6) and one of our Decca cartridges after the cartridge is built and ready for shipping it will be sent to Morech in Denmark to be set up and then sent on to our owner. We have another surprise up our sleeves. While I don't want to spill the beans yet it I will give you a clue. It has something todo with spinning a 12" black thing. For now enjoy your music. LD |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Geno on 06/17/24 at 15:43:51 Quote:
Might as well shed light on this. What is the price of the new cartridge? What is the price of the tonearm? Will Decware have some of these in stock, for sale? Thanks, Geno |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Kahuna Jack on 06/17/24 at 17:29:59 Be careful what you wish for Geno LOL . Steve mentions " 6 figure price " as an ice breaker in his writings someplace . |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/17/24 at 18:37:06 So far as I know these are both 4 digit items similar in price to our larger amplifiers, not 6 digit. If someone sent me a 6 digit cartridge or arm I would have returned it unopened. Steve |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Donnie on 06/17/24 at 18:52:43 I think that it is a 6 figure price. $1000.00 is six digits long! |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Steve Deckert on 06/17/24 at 18:59:40 OK, fair enough. Getting old is so much fun ; ). I meant to say 'figure'  |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by CAJames on 06/17/24 at 22:21:42 To me fair (Donnie doesn't need me to explain his joke) in science/engineering 1000.00 is "six significant figures" while 1000 is "one significant figure." |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by Geno on 06/18/24 at 00:47:30 Quote:
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by London Decca on 06/18/24 at 12:20:30 Hello Music Lovers, I'll post information within the next few days. Stewart L/D |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by London Decca on 06/21/24 at 17:52:56 Hello Decware Enthusiast, London Decca Pricing London Reference $6,495.00 London Super Gold $2,895.00 Each cartridge is hand-built with all parts being hand selected and tested. We do have a build list and require a 50% deposit. For more information contact us at business@londondecca.com Cheers, Stewart |
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Title: Re: DECCA cartridges Post by The other Lon on 06/22/24 at 22:39:11 Unrelated to the post Steve, just could not resist. At the local library today looking through the CD bin and came across this. Could not believe it. Also scored a copy of their Neon CD. 
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