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Message started by Dominick on 05/15/24 at 02:13:44

Title: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Dominick on 05/15/24 at 02:13:44

Went down a rabbit hole with vinyl, and of course landed on Decca records.  Here’s a good video where this guy talks about the Decca variations, as well as the wide and narrow band differences, as well as the London Label.  

https://youtu.be/8iJYkxExM7k?si=zON-2Vz6uK4DRPKC


Also…here’s some good info on vinyl pressings in general for those who are new to vinyl…. (Note…the following information is copied from a PSAudio forum)


IMHO as I’ve gotten quite heavily into buying audiophile reissues and originals if they’re proven to be higher quality.

A lot of labels are repeated through different genres.

All of these are 100% analogue cuts, APART from Mobile Fidelity who usually use a digital copy from the master (but are still very high quality)

For classical originals -

Decca SXL series (simply the highest quality to date IMHO but getting pricey). These were basically an Audiophile range when Stereo was brand new from 1958, when you think in those days to kit out a stereo system meant buying another amp (as they were all monoblocks) plus another speaker, it was only high profile doctors / lawyers types that could afford a stereo setup. As such, these early Stereo records were priced extremely highly, out of reach of most people, but the quality is second to none if you can find them in good condition. The Eastern Asian community snapped up an awful lot of these from the 90s onwards when vinyl started losing focus as they’re heavily into classical.

Deutsche Grammophon pre 1973

HMV (His Masters Voice) ASD series with white and gold label, extremely good

Worth noting as well as not a lot of people know this, but the London Recordings label is actually just the US releases of the Decca label and sometimes vice versa, american originals then printed for UK, they used the same metal works. Often you can find the same copy on London rather than Decca for a 10th of the price.

For Classical audiophile reissues -

Deutsche Grammophon Original Source series, new, sell out fast, all have been superb to date, these are actually performed as a new production and recorded live, I believe they’re cut direct from the 4 track masters rather than reducing them to 2 track. Amazing process.

For Rock Audiophile reissues -

Speakers Corner, do yourself a favour and find a sealed copy of their Lou Reed - Transformer, one of the greatest rock pressings of all time IMHO, can still find them out there

Analogue Productions, anything from Analogue Productions is superb, no matter what genre. Their UHQR are the super luxury pressings, everyone should own at least one to see what their system is capable of

Classic Records, went under around 2009, were bought out by Analogue Productions, they had some quality control issues, but in the main, they’re a safe bet and you can still often find their records in the market still sealed, I’ve picked up a few myself in the last couple of years. Analogue Productions often still use the Classic Records metalworks when repressing their catalogue titles.

Mobile Fidelity, a notch down from AP in reliability, but still excellent, their UD1S series is their luxury range

Vinyl Me Please, often do more modern titles that others don’t currently consider, pressed at GZMedia which used to be awful but has improved no end since the pandemic and are now quite reliable. Their luxury series are the Anthology box sets, top notch quality pressings, and include really good booklets and podcasts that make a real experience out of genres that I otherwise wouldn’t find myself. They’re also incredibly adept at restoring recording where the original tapes have been lost, such as original latin american records or Zamrock titles.

Jazz audiophile reissues -

Analogue Productions, always extremely high quality, no matter what genre

Impex, never had a bad record from them, personally I think their quality control is the highest amongst everyone

Sam Records (France), alternative french sourced recordings when big artists were playing over there, some incredible content, one man operation, as an introduction get the Nathan Davis With Georges Arvanitas Trio – Live In Paris - The ORTF Recordings 1966/67

Blue Note, their premium series are the Tone Poets, really high quality, equivalent of an Analogue Productions. Their budget range that cut down on the packaging and vinyl weight are the Classic Series, but the mastering and pressing is still incredibly high quality even though they’re only about $25. Blue Note have always retained control over their tape catalogue, and as such, they’ve managed to keep them in incredibly good shape over the years.

Cohearant Records, owned by Kevin Gray, just about to release their second title, Kevin has a completely renovated true all tube recording, mastering and cutting setup and he records live in his own studios. If you can, pick up their first title which has recently been repressed, Kirsten Edkins - Shapes and Sound, it’s a saxophone jazz record and you have to hear it to believe it, it’s just beautiful and I’m not that into jazz (although do have a real soft spot for any sax music). These aren’t reissues at all, they’re all new unique recordings commissioned by Kevin for this series.

Electric Recording Company, I’ve put them lower down, not because of their quality which is insanely high, but because of the high price point. Ultra luxury pressings, done on an all tube cutting desk, NO MASTERING APPLIED, what’s on the master tape is what’s cut to disk. Jackets are hand made. Usually, they cost around 450 Euros per record and usually only release 300 or so copies of each title, I have no idea how people actually buy them, they tend to sell out in a matter of seconds.

Mobile Fidelity, particularly for Miles Davis titles

Vinyl Me Please, they do some good Jazz titles, they’re a mark down from the above, but still very good quality.

Blues -

Analogue Productions, do quite a range of classical blues titles

Vinyl Me Please

R&B / Rap -

Vinyl Me Please, they’re simply the standout winners in this genre, they’re consistently produce the best copies available for almost all their Rap titles, mostly because no other label gives the genre due attention as yet

I’ll also add a list of Mastering / Cutting engineers who are always worth prioritising.

Current day -

Kevin Gray - The current top tier, this guy never misses, I would say with confidence that anything he’s ever put out has been a strong contender for one of the best sounding copies available

Ryan K Smith - Ready to sideline with Kevin above, Ryan is similarly standout in the lineup

Sidney Claire Meyer - She’s very young, studied under Kevin Gray, she is the cutting engineer responsible for the Deutsche Grammophon Original Source series and really showing her potential right out of the gate

Bernie Grundman - Puts out some good stuff, he’s getting on a bit though and I feel some of his later works are slipping a little, not so reliable

Krieg Wunderlich - The mastering engineer on most MoFi products, can be hit and miss, but when he gets it right, it really is superb.

Historical legends -

Bilbo (Denis Blackham) - If you ever see a record with Bilbo in the deadwax, just buy it, in my travels, I’ve never come across a bad Bilbo press, 9 times out of 10 they’re preferred over originals, or he was actually often brought in to do original cuts on Bowie and other big names.

Rudy Van Gelder - Probably the most famous Jazz mastering technician, most of the great titles were done by him in the 50s through to the 70s





Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by CAJames on 05/16/24 at 19:31:01

Nice info Dom.

I started hoarding collecting mostly classical LPs back in the 80s, when everyone was dumping them for digital. At that time we looked for Decca “blue back” ffss LPs. They were called blue back because the back of the jacket was blue. And ffss was printed on the label, which I think was for “full frequency stereophonic sound.” These were nice albums, but the real prizes were RCA Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence.

I was able to get a few of them, but since they were what TAS and Stereopile were gushing about they were typically hard to find, and very expensive when you could find them. But the best sounding record I have is a Mercury that, long story, will likely never be reissued.

I dabbled in some of the reissues, but once the nice digital versions campaign out I kinda lost interest in paying reissue prices when the albums didn’t sound that much better than the CDs or esp. SACDs. But I haven’t listened to them in a while so maybe I’ll do that when I get home in a couple of days.

Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Dominick on 05/16/24 at 23:00:43

James….I found a few Used Decca ffss LP’s on eBay that I’m considering; but none with the blue backing.  I must admit…I want to acquire a few out of curiosity just to hear what they sound like.  A Debussy and Rachmaninov reissues are in my sights…just trying to narrow down the selections.   I’ll see where I land on this journey.  


Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by CAJames on 05/16/24 at 23:43:32

I don’t know a lot of Deccas off the top of my head, but one absolute classic is the Peter Maag Mendelssohn Sym. 3 aka the Scottish. Hall of Fame music and sound, it is one on which I would not be afraid to spend some $$$ if you find one in good shape. I have no idea what the used market for it is like however.

It is (or was) also a popular reissue, I think it was the first “audiophile” CD I ever bought.

Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Dominick on 05/17/24 at 21:41:34

James….thanks for the info.  After some digging…I found two.    Well it looks like the used market for the first pressing Decca is off the charts and absurdly expensive with a sticker shock of either $285 or $400 dollars 😳😳. The one for $400 is a first UK pressing with a 33 1/2 rpm, and the one for $285 is not a first pressing and cut at 45 rpm.  Need to see if I can find some reviews first.  

  I’ll put an offer in, but I don’t see the seller coming down to a more reasonable price on either album.   Need to keep looking on other platforms.  I’m going to stream this album first to hear how it sounds digitally.


Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Dominick on 05/17/24 at 23:27:42

Here’s a bit more info on the Decca label …..

https://www.spiralclassics.co.uk/guide-to-collecting/decca


Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by CAJames on 05/18/24 at 01:47:43

Yikes! That's a lot of dough. The 45 RPM sounds like a re-issue. I did some digging myself and I see Acoustic Sounds has a Speakers Corner 45 for $175. Which is still a lot for my Scottish1 Heritage to deal with, but it probably sounds great.

FWIW I'm not sure what "first pressing" means exactly. What I'm familiar with are "stamper numbers" which tell you (sort of) how close the stamper that created the LP is to the original master lacquer. And I don't see it in the picture of the $400 LP on ebay, which seems a little sus to me. Honestly, if I really wanted a "classic" classical LP I would probably get a reputable reissue rather than take my chances on a 60+ year old high dollar LP that I bought based (at best) on a picture. Also honestly, I've forgotten a lot of the details about LP stampers etc. that were very important to me decades ago, so this technical stuff is even more JMO/FWIW than my usual posts.

1 "Scottish" is the nationality. "Scotch" is a drink. Of this I am sure.


Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Dominick on 05/18/24 at 14:05:07

Yeah that is a lot of dough for sure.  Even the Acoustic Sounds album at $175 is still too much me to drop….unless I absolutely LOVED the album.  I’m streaming it now in the car through my AQ Dragonfly Red and it is a beautiful piece.  Acquiring a reissue is definitely the way to go.  Even if I bought the $400 album….My vinyl rig as it sits would not even do the album justice.  I’m gonna throw out an offer to see where it lands for kicks.  

In terms of the first pressings…I am not sure of the specifics on how they determine or allocate to how many albums are made from each lacquer.    And I’m sure it varies depending on the record company.    

Here is a quick link about first pressings for those who are curious…

https://vinylvirgins.com/how-to-tell-if-a-record-is-an-original-pressing/

While there are a ton of articles on first pressings…this one seedbed decent enough to post.

Oh…and I did enjoy some single malt Scotch 2 nights ago with a few friends.  It’s rare I get the time these days to endulge in a libation…so it’s nice when the opportunity comes along.  

Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by CAJames on 05/18/24 at 16:11:20

Hey Dom,

I'm back home and better rested and want to clean up a few comments. First is your link above on the Decca pressings is very interesting. The first time I clicked on it nothing happened, and I forgot about it. But looking at it today that is good info, and I owe the seller of the $400 LP an apology because it does in fact look completely legit.

A big point I wanted to make is reissue vs original pressing, and that is when you are looking to buy an original pressing you are competing with collectors who are buying the album to "have" but not necessarily listen to. And that makes prices even more ridiculous.

Another thing is that the reference to "blue backs" I made above were actually London, not Decca. Do not be afraid of London LPs, some of my best sounding records are on London: The Solti Mahler 5th (he recorded it twice, once in the early 70s and it is awesome. He remade it in early digital and it is much less awesome IMO) and pretty much anything by Zubin Mehta and the LA Philharmonic. His recording of the Strauss Alpine Symphony was a goto demo disc back in the day.

Finally there is this (at the risk of hijacking your Decca thread): if I wanted one classical LP to show off my system and at the same time be musically satisfying it would be a RCA Living Stereo, either Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony or maybe Charles Munch and Boston. My personal favorite (and that of many many others) is the Reiner Scheherazade. These are popular reissues, and there are a bunch of them at e.g. Acoustic Sounds. Since you can stream all the albums before you buy you can easily pick a favorite but others I really like are The Reiner Sound, Lt. Kije, Spain or Pictures at an Exhibition. The Munch Daphnis and Chloe or Le Mer would be high on the list as well.





Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Sean on 05/18/24 at 22:24:36

Many random thoughts on this, hope I don't muddy up the thread  :)

First, for new recordings I'd like to add Music on Vinyl (MOV) from Holland. I've got a bunch of these and they all deliver great sound. They may use digital sources, I haven't looked into it that far. I don't believe they make any claims on sources like Mofi. One thing, once they go out of print the prices skyrocket.


Quote:
Another thing is that the reference to "blue backs" I made above were actually London, not Decca. Do not be afraid of London LPs, some of my best sounding records are on London: The Solti Mahler 5th (he recorded it twice, once in the early 70s and it is awesome. He remade it in early digital and it is much less awesome IMO) and pretty much anything by Zubin Mehta and the LA Philharmonic. His recording of the Strauss Alpine Symphony was a goto demo disc back in the day.






This one sounds incredible to me. Came in a box from a family member. I have a fascination with Holst's Planets ever since a school field trip to Heinz Hall in Pittsburgh way back in 4th or 5th grade. While looking for copies of that, Mehta's name pops up a lot. I'm not a big classical listener, but I plan to dive the Mehta rabbit hole. I've got other London releases, Rolling Stones Hot Rocks is a great one.

These, while not in great condition, sound "real" to me. I won't be passing up any of these Living Stereo or Living Presence records anymore! I swear I've got more of these, might be hidden deeper in my archives.


image uploader


Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Dominick on 05/20/24 at 02:15:29

James….thanks for the info on the first pressings and reissues.  Great point…at this point I am buying albums to play and enjoy…so acquiring reissues insurance completely fine with me.  

I had a chance to play the Salti Mahler 5th and some pieces for Metha today at work.  It drew me in and I went off and played some other music from Metha…I found a waltz that was great.  I will listen to the other recommendations reissues tomorrow.  I’ll post the albums that I listened to in the Music section.  Gonna start looking at the London LP’s and the RCA Living Stereo labels to acquire.  

Sean…you definitely didn’t muddy the water…it’s great info to add to this topic.  Im definitely going to listen to both those albums if I can find them on Qobuz or Tidal.  




Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Estes on 06/14/24 at 11:51:31




This is an informative thread! I have always loved Decca recordings. This is a favorite in my collection

Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by CAJames on 06/14/24 at 16:02:28

Yes, that is a very famous recording. Having DFD sing the alto part has polarized a lot of listeners (I'm not a fan, JMO/YMMV) but Bernstein, King and esp. the Vienna Phil and the London engineers are all in top form.

Title: Re: Decca Records Primer/ Vinyl Pressing Info
Post by Estes on 06/14/24 at 16:31:50

I bought this for Bernstein and King...  😎

Never was a fan of DFD. Everything is too "precious"

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