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https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl AUDIO FORUMS >> General Discussion and Support >> 300B or CSP3 https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1731879599 Message started by instinct2 on 11/17/24 at 21:39:59 |
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Title: 300B or CSP3 Post by instinct2 on 11/17/24 at 21:39:59 Need some thoughts or opinions. I currently own a UFO2.1 fully decked out and zrock2 fully decked out as welll. I’m using DM947’s and notice that they’re clipping out. I changed the speakers even thinking they may be have been blown, but they sound the same if not worse now. I’m about 600-700 on the list for a decked out CSP3 and ZP3. I’m now contemplating changing my order and selling my ufo2.1 and going with a 300b to get little more headroom. Thinking the price difference will be about the same after selling the ufo2.1 and I’ve read the 300b doesn’t gain much benefit from a preamp. Just wondering if anyone else has thoughts on best plan of action. Go with 300b or stay with the csp3… or any other thoughts of how stop the speakers from clipping with little higher volumes? |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by Lon on 11/17/24 at 22:12:59 Would you consider keeping the amp and finding speakers that will give you more headroom? As regards the SEWE300B I first used a preamp with it but when I realized that Steve had really incorporated a preamp in the amp I removed the CSP3. . . and found that it really sounded a bit better without it, and so I think one is not necessary. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by instinct2 on 11/17/24 at 22:23:49 I’ve considered selling the speakers, but then realize I’m going to be spending lot more $. My thought is how to get the best sound with what I currently have for the least amount of $. Later down the road may switch out the speakers. Like you said the 300b doesn’t need a preamp, so it may be better go with the 300b and sell the ufo2.1. It’s basically an even switch for what I’m going to pay for level 3 csp3. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by The other Lon on 11/17/24 at 22:26:08 I feel it depends on a few other variables. Size of the room, desired listening level, etc. Do you think going to Sarah would give you enough over the UFO? Maybe a Torii? I have all three (The UFO is technically an 84 before the UFO). I like the Torii the best in each listening room and speaker combo. Plenty of headroom and an unbelievable sound. Just a couple nickels to think about. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by instinct2 on 11/17/24 at 23:06:06 My room is pretty small 14x12 with vaulted ceiling. I don’t feel like I listen to the amp that loud, but can hear the clipping. My thought was that 300b would give me a little more headroom, but also think other amps may be a better option. Just unsure which one. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by Lon on 11/18/24 at 00:42:20 Well, the safe bet would be something like the Torii Jr. I had Torii Mk II and Mk III for years but. . . found I prefer the SET sound to the Push-Pull--a personal thing. If you love your amp. . . perhaps more efficient speakers (may not be more costly than another amp) may be the key, probably what I would look into. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by CAJames on 11/18/24 at 01:53:13 Quote:
You say you hear clipping, do you see it in the meters? i.e. do they dance with the music when you hear clipping? If the meters aren't moving you're probably hearing something besides the amp clipping. How old are your power tubes? Perhaps the issue is your tubes are tired. My room is about your size, and my speakers are about as sensitive as your DM947s. I have 2 UFO25s, which would give me about a 3 dB advantage compared to you and I can blow the roof off and haven't heard (or seen) any signs of clipping. It just seems a little strange to me you'd get clipping in your situation if you aren't listening that loud. But if your issue is clipping, swapping a UFO2 for Sarah will only get your a few more dB, similar to adding a second UFO amp. Beyond that I pretty much agree with Lon. My first thought would be to find more efficient speakers. Or, if you think a new amp is the answer I'd look past the 300B to something like the Torii Jr. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by Bilyeaux on 11/18/24 at 02:06:18 I have the same amp and normally listen up to about 85 db, but push to 95 sometimes to just “see” and have never clipped the amp. At that level the meters are just moving a bit. The amp volume is at about 65%, and volume control is with preamp. My Omegas are about 97 and my Klipsch about the same. No issue with either. Personally I would set up a call with Steve. Hope you find your answer! Randall |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by Kahuna Jack on 11/18/24 at 02:34:28 I had some fun mentally putting my self in your position..... if I had the chance to score a Sarah 300B in a short amount of time ? Id jump all over that and sort the other stuff out later ( speakers, pre amp etc ) . Sarah 300B is going to be the most difficult Decware piece to find on the second hand market compared to others if you want to play around with other combinations. Just my thought process. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by Lon on 11/18/24 at 08:18:36 Yes, as two have suggested I would consider the output tubes. If you have a new backup pair (something that you should really keep on hand) place those in and experiment. If the clipping is curtailed, that's an easy fix. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by instinct2 on 11/19/24 at 18:26:02 Meters are not moving, I posted a video on the Facebook Decware Fans. So you could hear the clipping/rattling. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by instinct2 on 11/20/24 at 00:41:31 Couple people have replied on Facebook. Appears to be a gain issue. I removed the ZRock2 and it got little better and then tried playing same song from a cd l, through a cheap dvd player and what I was hearing was gone, but same time it sounded really bad (assume being a $19 dvd player didn’t help). Do you think the Wiim pro plus dac is the issue? I’m using my iPhone with apple airplay to change music… unsure how a dac works with gain. Suggestions of how to fix. This above my low expertise. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by CAJames on 11/20/24 at 15:45:52 I'm not on the facebook so I haven't seen your video and I don't stream or know anything about your Wiim DAC beyond a quick google, but I'll give you my 2 cents. "Gain issue" can mean a lot of things to me, but my first guess is your aren't getting enough output from your Wiim DAC, but you are when you use the cheap CD player. It sounds like you control the volume with your amp, not the DAC/streamer so your Wiim probably has fixed output and no volume control, but I would consult your documentation. If the above guesses are correct then what you need is in fact a CSP3 to give you more gain before your UFO2. But, again, just guesses to hopefully get your looking in the right direction. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by instinct2 on 11/20/24 at 21:26:29 I played around with the DAC more. It’s definitely a DAC issue. Getting way too much gain from it. Wiim allows you to change the gains on multiple adjustments. I can get rid of the noise… but now have to figure out the proper settings or maybe just buy a better DAC! Thanks for the help everyone, it got me down the correct rabbit hole to figure out the problem. |
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Title: Re: 300B or CSP3 Post by chapsjon on 11/21/24 at 00:29:48 I'm glad you have figured out the real issue so you can now find a true fix. I have an SE84UFO with CSP2+ and DM945s in a room a little smaller than yours. My source for this setup is either record player with ZP1 or Geshelli J2S Dac. I typically listen in mid 70s db with peaks in low 80s, but can turn it up to "too loud" without clipping. As I am sure you are doing, I'd say you've got to figure out your source or your troubles will follow any amp you use. Having said that, I love the CSP/ UFO combo but have never heard a 300B amp. I could have changed my SE84UFO to a Sarah but didn't due to cost difference, to include long term costs for replacement tubes. That's just me though. I'm a spendthrift. Not sure that helps you decide on whether to go with the 300B, but it should confirm that a CSP3/ UFO/ DM947 can deliver more than adequate volume in your room without clipping. |
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