will
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I have a heavily modified Torii IV and CSP3. I say heavily because they are upgraded in many ways beyond what are now Steve's cap and resistor mod "packages"...including wires, connectors, attenuators, extensive power supply cap additions and changes, and many additional upgraded and modified caps and resistors. Each modification was tuned individually to sound to be more complete, so they all mattered. Trying to keep the same basic signature and balance, but improve all aspects, they are like the same amps, but way, way better here.... bigger, tighter bass; denser, more resolving signal without thickness; notably more very fine detail in space; cleaner edges and increased space (less smearing from amps most would never call smeared!); increased senses of speed and dynamics....and all harmonically rich, with beautiful timbre.
I am guessing Steve's mod packages on most amps, though simpler, based on what I got from similar work, and from reports, are quite a big step up from stock. So, I think comparing amps with mods, with other amps without mods, is probably not a clear comparison in seeking answers about which amp, or pre to buy.
Also, in theory for me, not having heard it, Steve's work on the 25th Anniversary Zen is in a different category, really a new amp. Using many design improvements, including many new, or modified, and better parts beyond the cap and resistor mod packages, I can easily imagine it is meaningfully on a higher level.
Not to confuse things, just to say that no matter what you get, the 25th Anniversary Amp seems to be rightfully Steve's state of the art, and I agree with others that modded versions would be worth the extra investment if you go for a more powerful amp.
That said, in my room, with my HR-1s (±92.5 dB), I have not been able to fully enjoy Decware amps with lower power than my Toriis. And though it takes less volume with modifications to feel complete, with pumped up recordings, I can still push mine into subtle distortion at times. I am guessing this is in part due to my running my ZBIT before the CSP3 and both set for pretty high output... a double voltage bump making it easier to max out voltage to the Torii? With either "pre" in, and the other out, I can get louder without distortion, but I love the sound most with all three, and it is plenty loud for an immersive experience. From this, I am guessing that for me, even though the 25th sounds quite powerful beyond its measurements, for the way I like to listen, I doubt I would be satisfied across recordings in this room without speaker changes.
Which leads me to my opinion on pres. Once tuned with power, tubes, vibration, etc, and with really good cables, I really like what the ZBIT and CSP3 offer. I agree with others that a pre adds something, or I would not use them...I like the Torii alone a lot, and this is likely the most "pure" signal, but I would not say it is the most complete. My tuned up ZBIT has a sound, but not much in my favored volume range. At different levels in this range, it adds more or less clarity, definition and weight across the spectrum, but with the Torii "signature" much more what I hear. And the CSP3, with the right setup of tubes, etc, brings a tube based lucidity to the Torii I really love, offering a different flavor of voltage adjustment, and associated adjustable signal power, lucidity, and weight.
But as much as liking the sound of these pre stages, I really love gain riding. Choosing a preferred volume, while keeping the same relative loudness, by increasing pre volume and lowering the Torii, I can add weight, density, and lucid complexity...or, by decreasing the pre stages with the Torii higher, I can increase space and lean the sound, making thicker/darker recordings better... At the same time, each piece having its own complimentary feel, I like subtly tuning the balance of characters of these components... With this method, I can make about any recording balance quite well here.
The way I have things tuned, turning the ZBIT up, increases spacious complexity and articulate signal density across the spectrum. And the CSP3 contributes OTL lucidity and sweetened/richer harmonics, and pushed harder can notably increase signal power and bass in the balance. Both increase or decrease punch, signal power and articulation in different complimentary ways to me.
In these complex and alive systems, where every part matters, all system/rooms are invariably tuned differently, so this is just another set of experiences and preferences. Hope it helps some.
Will
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