Forums - Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...

Mark

Seasoned Member

Posts: 265

Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...
06/14/18 at 18:24:32

Well, finally pulled the trigger on a Zen UFO (basic)…

Note: I always liked the Shuguang 5U 4G rectifier because of its crisp sound signature; however, I'm always seeing the 'UFO' pictured with a 274B rectifier, and I'm not too partial to the sound of that tube...

Question: Was the 'UFO' optimised for the 274B?...

Another: Will the 5U 4G work well in this amp?...

Another: Can it [amp] be optimised for the 5U 4G Shuguang?...

Another: Can I make sure that Decware sends me the amp with a 5U 4G Shuguang rectifier in it?...

Again, my ears tell me that this rectifier gives me what I want... Esp. with the 6 P 15P EV output tubes with a 1958 first run Amperex Bugle Boy 6 DJ 8 input tube with the 'D' getter... Best for classical music, to my ear, and I am lifetime pianist...

Thank you in advance for any info / opinion you have... (m.)

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Lon

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Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...
Reply #1 - 06/14/18 at 18:55:18

Mark,
The 274B that the amp ships with is not really a 274B, but actually electrically equivalent to a 5U4G, just in a bigger bottle. I wouldn't say that Steve "tailored" the amp for this tube, but that he thinks it's the best for the amp that is new production and reliable and available to re-tube.

It may well sound more similar to the tube you prefer than you think. It's also a Chinese tube. Many like it. . . you might too.

As for "guaranteeing" you get the tube you want. . . you need to talk to Steve or Sarah to see if they can supply that. Or maybe order the amp without tubes. . . .

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Geno

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Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...
Reply #2 - 06/14/18 at 20:24:28

Mark, the first thing I did was swap out the Valve Art for a 5U4G in my UFO. I like the sound much better. Lately, I’ve been using a Russian 5C3S “winged C”. It is a direct replacement for the 5U4G. It is NOS 70’s or 80’s Russian military. I think it’s the best sounding rectifier I’ve heard in my UFO. I get mine on EBay and they are inexpensive, usually about $25 for a pair.

Geno

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Mark Seasoned Member Posts: 265	Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO... Reply #3 - 06/14/18 at 21:14:00 Thanks Lon and Geno... I'll contact Decware to make sure they send amp with the 5U4G... I can hear the difference between the two tubes... The 5U4G is faster, and the timbral accuracy on orchestral instruments is better, IMHO... (m.)
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effluviography Seasoned Member Posts: 145	Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO... Reply #4 - 06/14/18 at 21:57:54 I agree with the 5U4G in the Super Zen. I've tried quite a few different rectifiers and the one I've found to be the best for dynamism/detail is the Raytheon 5U4GB Black Plate. Not too expensive on eBay. I use one in my ZP3 too.
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Lon

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Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...
Reply #5 - 06/14/18 at 22:00:31

In my Zen amps I've always liked 5Y3 and 5V4 types best in the past. Just a touch warmer and "heftier" than the 5U4 types and suited my system best.

With my 25th Anniversary SE84UFO3 Monoblocks I've been enjoying Type 80 tubes from RCA and Tung-Sol and have settled on the Sophia Electric Aqua 274B. The Aqua is a near 'perfect' tube. . . just gets out of the way and lets the other tubes in the complement shine.

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Mark

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Posts: 265

Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...
Reply #6 - 06/14/18 at 22:14:55

Lon, that 'thinness' is exactly what I'm looking for... To me, it represents an accurate timbral representation of the actual instruments in a live orchestral performance... I'm coming from a long past of making recordings of such events, and I know what I want to hear... I was also thinking about a PSVANE 5U 4G, but I don't know how much better it would be than the Shuguang, which can be had for about $12.00 US...

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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)

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Lon

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Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...
Reply #7 - 06/14/18 at 22:47:00

I've made recordings too and the way that "thinness" is presented in my system wasn't realistic when playing back recordings I made myself. Ah well, we're all different and we have different systems and rooms even if our "tastes" and perceptions are similar. My experiences this decade have shown me that what really matters is how a rectifier interacts with all the tubes in the complement. So a 5U4G can work for me with one input tube and not another, or one output tube and a certain input tube but not others.

I know you'll find the right combo and enjoy the UFO! Congrats! My first experience with the UFO transformers was in a Taboo Mk IV. I had a Mk III which did not have the UFOs and then when I got the Mk IV I immediately seemed to "get" the important difference.

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Mark

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Posts: 265

Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...
Reply #8 - 06/14/18 at 23:12:58

Right, Lon... I would call it synergy... I don't know why such a cheap tube would sound better to my ears; but, yes, it's probably because of the synergy with the rest of my gear...

I'm very sensitive to coloration of instruments that I know intimately... My taste in tone tends toward the clinical... Timbral accuracy to me is paramount... That is, more important than imaging, soundstage, or anything else...

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If a rabbit defined intelligence the way man does, then the most intelligent animal would be a rabbit, followed by the animal most willing to obey the commands of a rabbit. -Robert Brault, writer (b. 1938)

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 27628	Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO... Reply #9 - 06/14/18 at 23:24:22 We're on the same page. .. the accuracy of tone and the character of an instrument is of paramount importance to me as well, and I place that above soundstage et al. There's different ways to get there and each of the Decware amps I've had led me down another path as far as tubes go, but they can each get me there.
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Lon

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"Love without
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Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO...
Reply #10 - 06/15/18 at 11:34:55

Mark, also give the 6N5P that Steve will send with the amp a chance. I used to use NOS 6922 and 7308 types exclusively but Steve has been rigorously testing and selecting 6N5P and 6N1P tubes and I have shifted to using these, surprising myself in preferring them to NOS options. The 6N5P especially is a remarkable tube in the Zen circuits. It is excellent with classical music.

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Mark Seasoned Member Posts: 265	Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO... Reply #11 - 06/15/18 at 15:25:24 Lon: I of course tried the 6N1P which came with the amp... I don't know if the 6N5P is any different... Likely so... The 1958 Amperex Bugle boy 6DJ 8 with 'D' getter is superb, imho... High level of musicality... I'll have to give the new stock driver tube a listen...
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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 27628	Re: Question on My Future SE 84 UFO... Reply #12 - 06/15/18 at 15:34:19 Hey, the 6N5P knocked even Amperex 7308s out of the mix for me. Give it a few days in there . . . they are great tubes, different than the 6N1P in important ways.
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