Forums - Decware Amps and Extreme Music?

tubeshy Verified Member Posts: 35	Decware Amps and Extreme Music? 05/17/21 at 18:32:34 Any metal heads here? Curious especially for those who have a complete Decware system and play metal or other extreme music (power noise, black/speed/thrash/dissonant metal, punk, etc)
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Marbia Verified Member Posts: 15	Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music? Reply #1 - 05/19/21 at 16:22:33 Generally speaking, Classical music is more demanding than Metal. With that being said, if extreme volume is required, you will either need more power or speakers with an efficiency rating over 100DB.
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tubeshy

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Posts: 35

Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #2 - 05/19/21 at 16:28:41

Thanks. It may be true about classical but I'm curious about adding a Zen Amp to my system in addition to my SS amp. I guess I'm curious to know how these amps handle extreme music. Its not about volume, more about a flea watt amp with 99db speakers (and dual subs) being able to do justice with music smashed with distortion and bass.

I've read people do this with amps running 6550's or kt120's but not with el34's. Since I read the Zen Amps won't have more bass with larger power tubes I wonder if its just not a good match (generally speaking). I'm somewhat ignorant regarding tube amps and the various topologies.

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Marbia

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Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #3 - 05/19/21 at 18:01:37

Everything I play on my Zen amp sounds great, I don't even miss having tone controls. For the most part I seek quality pressings of music that was recorded and mastered well. Unless things have changed, metal music is typically not mastered very well. It is difficult to say if you will be pleased with the sound quality. Maybe someone lives near you and would let you hear your music on their amp. I am on Long Island. At one point it was possible to hear equipment in the store before you bought it, this gave you a general idea of how it sounded. Those days are long gone.

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tubeshy Verified Member Posts: 35	Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music? Reply #4 - 05/19/21 at 18:29:18 Yeah its hard to meet people and I know no one with a full tube set up. Let alone someone who would allow a stranger to bring over music that would terrify the pets/kids/wife/neighbors. More to ponder I suppose. Thanks
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Steve Deckert Administrator If the 1st watt sucks why continue? Posts: 6361	Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music? Reply #5 - 05/19/21 at 19:24:12 SE84UFO + Lii Audio Crystal 10 Reference Cabinet + DreamTheater is one of my favorite sessions recently. It lacked nothing. Was able to duplicate the sound in the headphones. No subs were used. Speakers 100dB / 28Hz ~ 25kHz. Crossoverless, single-driver. https://www.decware.com/newsite/Liiaudio.html Steve
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Marbia

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Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #6 - 05/19/21 at 22:39:48

Steve has a great point. If you do upgrade to a tube system, try ditching the subs for a month or so, you may be pleasantly surprised. I bought a Zen amp and moved on from vintage HH Scott tube gear. With the exception of insane volume, the Zen does everything better. If you ever come to NY, you can come to my place. Just bring beer.

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Dominick

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Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #7 - 05/20/21 at 03:29:59

I will echo Steve’s recommendation about Dream Theater. They are Juilliard Music graduates and are super talented. Listen to the song “Pull Me Under” off of their album “ Images Without Words”. I just played that on my Torii MKIV 25th 2 days ago, and it really rocked!! Even though my amp has not cracked the 100 hour mark yet, its damn fast in my opinion.

Then I decided to try Iron Maiden’s “Wasted Years“, and it impressed me. David Murray and Adrian Smith are solid guitar players that create a great sound with the twin guitars. If you find quality recordings from heavy metal artists, then the Decware amps when paired with the proper speakers will kick you in the teeth.

This album is on Qobuz and in Hi Res. It’s a clean recording. Unfortunately with a lot of metal music, the actual recording and mastering is just optimized for resolving systems that will show its weaknesses. Once you start to really listen to the music, you’ll know right away if an album is good or not.

This Maiden album is really good. I’m a guitar guy having played since I was a kid and through college, so I can say that from the guitarist point of you, this one is a keeper.

Dom

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gsanger

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Posts: 35

Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #8 - 05/20/21 at 17:53:51

Yes! I posted in another thread that I mainly listen to Sleaze (also known as "the New Wave of Hair Metal") - I'll post a few YouTube links at the end for those interested to hear what it's about.

I have an SE84UFO, and the things it does with metal is really cool. Probably my favorite thing is the way drums sound with the amp. Despite almost all metal having a very produced way of recording drums (lots of close mic'ing, heavy compression, etc.), the Decware amp really makes drums sound more natural than any SS amp I've heard. The Decware also does a really good job conveying the sense of space in a recording - that is, any reverb in the recording (real, or more typically, artificial) really comes through and adds a whole other dimension to the sound that typically SS has a harder time rendering. Other than that, distorted guitars sound great, bass always has a satisfying presence and vocals sound great. When the whole system is set up right, the Decware also creates a really "fleshy" center image, so singers mixed center have a real palpable presence.

In short, I LOVE metal with my Decware. It makes it an experience.

That said, I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but for me, I think a preamp in front of the Decware really helps add some weight and density to heavier music. You can get away without a preamp, but there is a bit of a loss of power and energy for me. I currently have a Slagle autoformer (or Slagleformer) in front of my Decware - it's a passive, but somehow it has that same addition of weight as an active amp. (Planning to start a discussion about these soon, just have to get some pics together first).

Anyway, here's some "classic" sleaze tracks for those interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRJtSNUDL14 - Hardcore Superstar - "Above the Law"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UymaV1xlhRs - Crashdiet - "Generation Wild"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBI1fyhRE88 - Crazy Lixx - "21 'Til I Die"

Also, it's not sleaze, but I love the way the drums are recorded on the last few Dragonforce albums, and think this cover of Johnny Cash is some of the best drumming I've ever heard - and the Decware doesn't miss a beat playing it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8zU8paFops - Dragonforce - "Ring of Fire"

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tubeshy

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Posts: 35

Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #9 - 05/20/21 at 22:44:48

Thanks to everyone, especially Steve who must inject coffee to stay awake these days. I truly do appreciate all the answers/suggestions.

This is where I'm at musically these days and the impetus for my ponderings as of late (though I listen to a broad spectrum of stuff):

https://youtu.be/wGh5g9P7r_M

https://youtu.be/ainV57QAIH8

https://youtu.be/1hFoqYl0un8

https://youtu.be/UCo7Eyr_i3I

https://youtu.be/NF3EqkPHZy0

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thethanimal

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Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #10 - 05/27/21 at 16:23:51

My SE84UFO, 10” full-range Audio Nirvana speakers, and a SVS 12” sealed sub convey metal very well. Danny Carey’s “Chocolate Chip Trip” off Tool’s “Fear Innoculum” is a trip indeed, and the best drum sound I’ve heard.

I will say that I sometime have to run the amp with the low bias on the input tube for metal, as the guitar distortion can get peaky. But I think that’s a problem with my infamous room and perhaps indicative of more work to do on damping in my home built speaker cabinets. The amp will tell it like it is and expose other issues that need to be address to optimize your sound.

And all of Dream Theater’s work is great. I really enjoyed the new album Steve referenced, but I prefer the Mike Portnoy days. Turn down the lights, put on “Metropolis Part II: Scenes From a Memory”, and float along.

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Lon

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Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #11 - 05/27/21 at 16:27:44

I don't play that type of music. . . but I always use the low bias setting for the input tubes on my Decware amps when available. That's where I get the best sound in my room/system.

With the flexibility Decware components can provide and with the right amp/speaker combination any genre of music is very enjoyable to listen to within volume limits.

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tubeshy Verified Member Posts: 35	Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music? Reply #12 - 06/03/21 at 17:05:19 Awesome. Thanks all
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portionboy

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Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #13 - Yesterday at 15:07:33

Hi all!
I want to add my findings here too, since I listen to all kind of music but majority of it is metal.
I've had my se84UFO for little bit over three months now and what i've noticed is that it does not care what kind of music it eats. It's fast and detailed and even with some extreme metal like Lorna Shore or Cattle Decapitation, it just fills the room with music and makes you listen. It feels like it's opening up layers of music for you to wonder.
Of course speakers are important part of the experience but my amp can do all of what i mentioned through 3" fullrange speakers - or maybe wide range is better since there is not much bass, but what bass there is, is detailed, fast and very enjoyable.

So I would say one does'nt have to be afraid of what music can one listen with this little amp.

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CAJames

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Re: Decware Amps and Extreme Music?
Reply #14 - Yesterday at 16:12:28

Quote:

Posted by: portionboy Posted on: Today at 07:07:33

...So I would say one doesn't have to be afraid of what music can one listen with this little amp.

Welcome! And congratulations on your UFO and for discovering what so many other UFO owners have found: these amps rock! I don't listen to "extreme metal," the closest I get is (very) occasionally spinning my Dead Kennedys CD when I'm in just the right mood. But I'd call a lot of the music I do listen to pretty extreme: Mahler symphonies, the Buddy Rich big band or Bach organ music. And all of it sounds amazing on 6 1/2" single driver stand mounted monitors.

I guess the Conventional Audiophile Wisdom (CAW^tm) is a 2 watt single ended tube amp would sound great for recordings of a dulcimer or maybe a female vocal but struggle with anything more extreme than that. And nothing could be further from the truth. Steve has designed and built a really remarkable amp.

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