JBzen and Brad,
You guys lost me on the spoon bang gang thing... Can you educate me on what this means... sorry, I don't get out much
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JBzen,
Am I correct that you like a "purist" approach...tending not to wanting more things, even very transparent things in your paths. If so I get it, especially in theory, and if all else is equal in design, parts, wires, and cables.... But on the other hand, if it is all really good stuff to start with, in my case with Steve's "signature" sound considerations unifying them, my experience is that it is easier to add things of the same basic style. And these pre-stages being generally pretty transparent, while offering different enhancements from the designs, I like how they can compliment each other and the amp. Once tuned carefully with great tubes and all, individually and together, for me the improvements to musicality can easily outweigh the losses, liking the "improvements" enough that I have to listen for the subtle losses from more things in the path. That said, I do have really good power now, super good cables throughout, pay attention to vibration tuning, etc, so a lot of impediments to un-smeared and translucent sound are taken care of along with careful tube tuning, and later, modifications.
And with successful modifications throughout, the same easy integration tends to happen for me, but with increased transparency, natural immediacy, realistic dynamics, clearer space and harmonic complexity, etc. Time and time again, adding the CSP3 or ZRock or ZBIT, I can improve my Torii sound. And as this progression unfolds, though subtle minor losses remain, I have to listen harder to hear them.
A fun part, each progressive longer dive into one component always reveals ways to improve the others, taking the sound of all the rest further yet, and creating some new references to improve the others from.
The other side though.... I had not gotten a new component in a long time, and got a used ZRock2 with only the tube mod. After hearing it with everything else modified pretty successfully, I would not have been able to keep it had I not been into modifications... it was compelling and cool, but just not up with the rest in their post stock or 25th mod states... Compared to the rest, it was a little slow and masked.... illustrating how even with nice designs, context matters when adding things.
So I set out to bring the ZRock into equilibrium with the rest, and pretty much needed to do all I did on the others to get there, all changes arrived at by sound tests... extra good connectors and wires/cables, resistor and cap tuning/refining, really careful bypass tuning, and in this case, output caps on the EQ board. And having focussed on it for months, it got me wanting to bring the Torii up some more to catch up with the ZRock's enhanced traits. The "new" ZRock engaged, more density without thickness or weighting the balances too much toward bass, complex harmonics with more complete space and fine detail throughout...definitely having a ZRock flavor, but what got my attention as much was how improving it taught me how the super tuned Torii could improve.
So lately, I am running my Torii with only a ZBIT between it and DAC, and the Torii seeming about right now, this thread stimulated me to test this setup with and without my the seriously modified ZRock2.
After the ZRock revealed it, the biggest thing the Torii lacked in comparison was very fine detail and space that the ZRock in this state helped pull. But I am always listening to the whole and the many balances, so also had my attention on more refined speed balances, open density, and richer complexity throughout, less smearing supporting it all. Consistently I find cap combos (base and bypass layers, power and coupling) are instrumental in bringing in the finer tonal nuances and finer detail and space, potentially contributing greater resolution, and associated, increased density also if needed. These can be adjusted with the right little caps and/or layers of caps... like more resolution with less apparent density and more space, or more resolution with more apparent density (or warmth, or space, shimmer, body, etc). And tuned well, finer detail, space, and density can carry throughout the spectrum, just from the right choices of these (added) little bypass combos. Though generally the case that smaller decent caps can help bigger bypasses do better, a lot of seemingly decent caps do not work as well as I like for this. But the right combos of the right caps promote a more authentic musical presentation everywhere, all the finer nuances of refining speed, space and resolution improving bass density with complexity, more timbral completeness, more resolved bass attacks and decays, clearer representation and differentiation between the kick drum and string bass notes... and same with mids and highs when all is right.
Anyway, an interesting trip lately having brought the Torii up to new levels based on insufficiencies the ZRock work revealed. And turning on the ZRock, I love it, or without, I love it. When on, richer resolution, but now more difficult to distinguish after the Torii tune up... but listening to whole records and getting reacquainted, its magic is there, more dense without thickness, more "analog" smooth with loads of fine detail, more natural immediacy and dynamics, more refined detail complexity and articulation along with more bass boldness and articulation. And after a while of adapting, it got more magical...just realer with a touching sweetness, not colored, but sweeter. With the "new" Torii, each of the ZRock's individual sonic area's additions and support were relatively subtly, but they added up in the experience, end results much greater than the sum of the individual improvements. When I listen carefully for issues related to more parts in the paths, I can still hear it slightly in some aspects of the sound, things a little more concentrated making a little less complex space between the finest details. But with the added harmonic sweetness shifting toward the mids a little as a result of the greater density and a little stronger bass in the balance, the space feels more solid and empty too while the ZRock enhances the whole in its particular ways.
It is always surprising to me how much further "great" can go as I learn the tools better, and learn to discern sonic traits better. So I guess all this is relative, everything depending on all else. And I suppose I could call myself a purist, the purity and completeness of the musical experience the bottom line, but I get it in part with refined complexity.
On another note, I don't understand how one can say without looking inside and listening that the STR Super Rectifiers would be no better than using better rectifiers. Possible I suppose, but if this designer is as serious as he sounds like he is, and as straight forward and honest as his emails imply, I doubt it is no better than changing rectifiers. And if my supposition is real, and we like his style, I still think it could potentially be enlivening, even with my super tuned power supplies. Maybe...
I am starting to more seriously consider getting one myself to test, and in hopes of helping to clear up all this speculation. The idea of the influences of an 805 or 845, etc, with purported increases in all the other good things from the circuit design, it is compelling to me, and I could get the lowest level model and use it on the CSP3. But then, for some true believers in "purist" simplicity, I guess my explorations and interpretations may not be believable anyway, so would my opinions on this thing matter in this thread...maybe to some.