Thanks--but no thanks?--for posting that Mark.

Okay, that did it. Thanks to Mark and Damien I have a Graphene Sluggo on the way to me.

Yes, contacting Mark or Damien is the way to get the Sluggos, they are not yet for sale on the web page.

Nice Lon, I need to email and order. ZMA only right now.

Four days with my new speaker cables.....I get it they do all things well. However, better suited to Solid State. Non-directional and no burn in needed is cool and apparent.

For me, I prefer .....what Steve created on Adams Street.....to console of his band .....real. I will keep my current.

I look forward to your impressions as the graphene wakes up more Lon. I have used graphene oil over time as a connection conditioner, and can imagine it to be a great thing to integrate in a sluggo. Not the same, but it seems some nicer Chinese fuses use graphene (and other) powder inside, and I would not doubt if SR similarly uses mineral blends supporting cleaner, denser, more dynamic sound.

Reading the review update Mark recently posted, I thought, "well I recall hearing very similar results (description-wise) changing from the Gold Plated “Super Sluggo" to Mark's Copper Sluggos.”

On first impressions, I remember liking the gold dipped "super sluggo," enjoying how it increased density with smooth and spacious midrange textures, fine detail and decays... a notable pleasant sweetness. But it did not take long to find the bass in particular slowish and veiled for my tastes, and associated, lacking finer information that makes leading edges and textures feel more complex and alive. This impression followed with the mids and top feeling less obviously slowish and veiled, but still a little sluggishness that to me was beyond a slightly euphonic sweetness… in turn reducing/smoothing the finest micro information in space, and speeds that I love.

After that settled in, I thought I would be one of the first to send my SDFBs and all back. But experimenting with different, more resolving, less bass weighted, and faster cables and tubes helped. Then I tried some home-made copper slugs that were big sounding, but more balanced here. Their bigness was like the gold, but with better resolution and speed balances, including the bass being alive and complete enough to keep me digging in. More cable and tube experiments to open the sound just so then caused me to be able to hear more of the SDFB benefits, while liking the concept of protected, direct connections…but I needed to make it work with less balance shifts and more transparently in this system.

Then I got some verafi coppers from Mark, and that helped more... I really like(d) the sound of his coppers, especially with clearer/faster cables and tubes. One of those rare occasions where copper really shines, the sluggo had good balances spectrally and across the speed ranges, while being quite resolving of very fine information in space... allowing a beautiful coppery shimmer and sweetness that is usually less clear here. The verafi copper being 5mm was part of this, mine having been more like 6mm, the lighter gauge verafi leaned the sound in a really good way in my system, less dense/full allowing more of the sound completeness I really like from the verafi copper.

Then, making faster and more resolving "piggies" continued to improve the whole in the same directions... a little less dense/full/bassy, they allowed more resolution and speed.


Now, having integrated the SDFBs with system adjustments, in today’s quick tests I used Archie Schepp and Niels-Henning Orsted Pederson "How Deep is the Ocean" from "Looking at Bird." It is a decent recording with just sax and bass, so a nice reference for me for hearing into the recordings of instruments and space. I did these tests in my CSP3 since it is easier to switch fuse replacements than my amp, and very revealing, so shows it all pretty well, but is limited to its signature. I tested them both ways to verify the most resolving sound. Then I let them warm up a little, but guessing more would be better, though making  it harder to compare. So these tests are not conclusive and are general based on one component and one recording… hopefully a useful set of pointers though.

I had been running a Rhodium plated hollow silver fuse replacement in the CSP3, and still feel like it is not fully burned in with several weeks of 5-8 hour days. I find Rhodium sounds good within a day or two a lot of the time, but takes a long time to fully burn in to a point where its solid clarity and smoothness continues to allowing the subtlest fine detail, space and speed.


First I tried the Super Sluggo (gold dip), and found it similar to when I first tried it... a nice big sound with seductive mid to high air and textures. But for me, it is still too slow, the slowness also reducing micro information cues and inner detail and space, especially down low. Even having compensated for the extra power supply push from sluggos making the whole of the sound denser and balancing it more toward bass... With the super sluggo, the bass in particular, supported by its fullness leaking some into the mids, is slow and dark enough to feel like the low end is lacking articulation in comparison to more open and faster top, and in comparison to other slugs I tried.

It would not surprise me if this is part of what the reviewer experienced changing from the gold super sluggo to graphene, bass issues he had with his amp possibly being in part associated with the Super Sluggo sound. Here, even having adapted the SDFBs to my system and tastes, if the gold were my only choice, and I was not a maker and modder, I imagine I might go back to fuses.


This system, without feeling bright or lean, shows everything pretty clearly, down to the finest harmonic information... Having solved a lot of the smearing I did not know was there per se, there is lots of space helping to show increased resolution of the finer harmonic complexities, leading edges, decays, textures, etc....  all in a warmish but fast musical foundation. The super sluggo pushed the balances and speeds out of whack in my initial tests, and still does that, though to a lesser degree.


Finally, here, the inherent sound of the Super Sluggo does good things I can imagine people preferring in given settings. But it does not on the whole compliment my system and sound needs. And my issues with the super sluggo are similar to what I interpret the reviewer found the graphene to resolve... By his descriptions of the positive changes with the graphene...looked at the other way... the graphene revealed and resolved traits that the Super did not completely reveal. Here, all the fuse replacements I have tried improved on these same issues, compared to the Super Sluggo, increasing overall clarity, speed, better balances...and in turn making the music more alive with a more complete soundstage.

This is not to say the Graphenes are not great, or that the Supers are not just right for some settings and tastes, just that they do influence the sound in pretty clear ways.


Next I tried a Verafi Copper. As I said, I really liked this one before, and I found it nice enough today to want to do more comparisons with my now, mostly hollow fuse replacements, at least once they are more burned in. The hollows open and resolve the speeds and sound more than the solids here, taking the system work I did to adapt to slugs a little further, and into a very nice place actually.

Here the copper does most everything in more resolved and neutrally balanced ways than the Supers, without serious veils or speed and spectral imbalances. Though more bass weighted, warmer, slower, and softer than the hollows, they sound good to me, allowing nice fine detail and space throughout. Round about, the balances and spatially alive finer resolution from the coppers are due in part to their more complete spectral and speed balances, allowing more fine revelation than the Supers. Compared to Rhodium/silver, or silver hollows, it brings a compelling warm sweetness that could be a nice tuning tool. For systems needing some more warmth and bass weighting (especially compared to fuses) without notable loss or smoothing of fine information in space, they might do this nicely with their relative neutrality and transparency.

Next was a solid Golden State silvers that I used with Mark's coppers for quite a while. These are 6mm, and I wish they were 5mm since the lighter gauge would open them up nicely. But they sound really good... sort of a bigger and clearer sounding Verafi Copper... all aspects of the sound a little bigger it feels fuller, but balanced, and quite spatially alive, excellent fine detail in space throughout balancing the fullness nicely. The silver is warm and resolving in a good silver way, but it does lack a bit of that sweet magic I get in this setting from the Verafi Copper Sluggos. How much of this is gauge, hard to guess, but within the bigger sound, the big silvers have similar or more absolute clarity with a good silver feel. And one or the other felt better to me in different placements, so I enjoyed using the two together for most of my testing with tube, cable, system work.

Then the hollows trickled in and replaced most of coppers and silvers. We will see after the hollows are fully burned in, but being less metal, they are less full, allowing whatever they allow more, and more quickly, yet still dense and musical here, so promising.

Leading to the next, the Rhodium/silver hollow. When I first put this in, it was wild...  intensely and weirdly clear. But that began to pass pretty quickly as it settled into its Rhodium sound. Still green, I do hear a distinctly solid and smooth Rhodium clarity... It is like all the clarity and space is there, but with a more solid feel than other metals, and the smoothness allowing a sense of some warmth, but less obviously textured than good copper or silver. From these comparisons, I realize the hollow Rhodium/Silver is just a little veiled in clarity and speed at this point, but I did not notice it before comparing with more burned in slugs. I expect that to pass...fingers crossed. I have not figured out how to describe the Rhodium sound beyond this. But having that sort of Rhodium smooth sheen, and being silver based and hollow makes it overall less bold, full, and bass weighted, while making it more spacious and open, especially compared to solid slugs I have.

Also, since these are hollow silver tubes, the Rhodium plating is inside and out, so these things proportionately have a lot more Rhodium to silver than Rhodium plated solid silver fuse replacements... I don't really know what to expect from this beyond a longer burnin, and I look forward to whenever that happens hearing them fully. Here, Rhodium's straight forward open and smooth clarity can be a nice touch in certain places... Little by little I find myself using it more in the mix, though I find it easier overall to use the more obviously warmish and textured pure silver, pure copper or gold plated pure copper for cable and component connectors.

Next is the pure silver hollow. After the solid silver and hollow Rhodium/silver, this one showed more clarity in space, more dynamic hit, a nice subtle warmth...though a less full "warmth" with less bass weighting than the solid silver. The sound still pretty dense, the more neutral and open feel makes it faster and more spacious.... more present and clearly active. Here it has really good balances throughout and is rich in speeds and in complex information. In these tests, and in this system, likely the “best” overall at this stage of burnin.... But this is in the context of several different slugs in use system wide. I like having a blend to mix and match.

Here anyway!

Clearly all systems are different, but I hope this points to the actual sonic characteristics of each without biasing it too much based on my system and tastes. That is the trick I think… and a tricky one at that.

Thanks Lon.

It is interesting that changing your Regenerator from hollow silver (last I recall anyway) to Graphene, has possibly revealed the hollow silver in the DAC as a weak link.

Your thoughts and listening this morning got me to thinking... During my tests above, I was so absorbed by the flow, I lost track of something important... To get a hollow silver to test in the CSP3, I needed to pull one from my DAC or Regenerator, the only two I have presently. I chose the DAC being easier to get to and thinking it may have a little less overall impact on the whole sound. Now, a little befuddled, having been so caught up in the activity, I so far have lost the time progression in mind. But I think it was right at the end, before testing the hollow silver in the CSP3 that I put the Rhodium plate hollow that had been in the CSP3 before tests, into the DAC, and the silver hollow that had been in the DAC, into the CSP3.

As I was listening this morning after reading your post I noticed hearing the silver revelation, warmth and textures in the CSP3, and finding added complexity there better than the Rhodium-plated smooth clarity and solidity. But I was still hearing the Rhodium's clarity, sheen, and its hit... now more pronounced, causing me to remember the hollow Rhodium plated silver was in the DAC!

It was then I figured that this order and combination contributed to the sound I had attributed to the hollow silver in the CSP3 above, particularly the clarity of attack and dynamic hit, guessing it was in part from the Rhodium contributing to a sense of immediacy and dynamics from the DAC. Overall it still sounded like Rhodium mixed with silver, but this order created an improved set of balances of those basic traits... A pretty combination of solidity, density and clarity at the core, with some warmer textures, fine detail, and space from the CSP3 ...

I verified my impressions by trying a Verafi Copper in the DAC, and sure enough, the sound became more like the silver alone, but with copper flavored warmth and textures added. This was also a really nice sound, but definitely different and I prefer the Rhodium/Sliver in the DAC, its comparatively contrasting qualities complimenting the silver complexity in the CSP3 really nicely.

I was listening to a Bugge Wesseltoft solo piano album, "Songs," and it is clearly a piano player who loves the sound of the piano recording... big body that is rich and complex while showing all the nuances of piano sound, from the immediacy of the hammer pads on strings through the dense body and complex harmonics from strings, wood and air...with beautiful long and complex decays. Even with a Zbit, a Zrock2+, and a newer toy I am finishing modifying that is designed to solve baffle step issues... Though all are pretty tuned up and resolving, that is three meaningful components and cable sets between the DAC and CSP3... yet this "sluggo" combination is quite real and clear. And this recording in particular shows more clearly that this slug combination, Rhodium plate in the DAC, and Silver in the CSP3, was creating something special. To me, it so far seems notably better than when I had been running the same hollow fuse replacements for some weeks, but in the opposite order, the silver in the DAC, and the Rhodium in the CSP3.

It is amazing how "good" can become "better" once optimal synergy is found.

So I have kept quiet as I didn’t want to influence your opinion on the Graphene Sluggo.

I switched back to High Purity Copper with Gold Immersion over a month ago.

Not because the Graphene is bad.  It’s actually pretty amazing.  However, it became just too analytical (and yes, a bit thin) sounding compared to the more fuller sounding HPC sluggo.  In some rigs and to some ears, this will be a God send but it just wasn’t the right fit in my case. Mine was also from the first batch (just like GS) where I could see flaking when I took it out.  I believe Mark has fixed that in the second iteration.

#555 post Lon. Yes, I'm all in with Ohno solid core.
DIY Speaker Cables/created my own hi-bred of Kimber Select KS6063 & KS6065 (24awg solid core w/6N Silver & Neotech solid core UP-OCC Copper with 19awg Kimber's best VariStrand .....9awg aggregate to speaker/12awg to each speaker post).

Will....speed PRAT and best timbre ever with my above creation & solid core of KS1030 IC ....Illumination's D-60 solid core + 7581A output tubes.

Kamran, I'm staying put with my HP Sluggo. I don't want to change it from what I'm hearing/enjoying.

You make good points here Will, and in fact you are pointing out what makes this FORUM such a great place. We have all found Steve's products and in enjoying and exploring them we are reinforcing and experiencing Steve's love of sonic exploration and discovering components and their evolution towards playback refinement.

And many of us post frequently and honestly and share our experiences. And we get to know each other as co-travelers on the journey, and this knowledge helps each of us to understand the modus operandi of the elements of the hardware. We share this knowledge. . . organically, as parts of our direct and indirect references in the conversations, and as a result we also create a foundation for implementation in our own explorations. I sense how you, Kam, Groove, Palamino, James, Donnie and many others "hear" and digest the playback and the nature of various components, and as you point out this allows us to better evaluate what and how a part or machine or positioning may influence our own systems.

Not every forum even begins to approach this sort of communal archive and lending library of knowledge and philosophy and sharing of joy and frustration and plain sonic experience. We're really lucky in that regard. And because of this structure of musical and equipment friendship we also have Steve, Mark and others on the production and development end participating and enriching the gene pool. A further fortunate blessing.

In my recent Sluggo moves I've regained a healthy lower frequency foundation that enhances the "whole." Your early guidance towards the High Purity Copper and Mark's excellent advice steering me to the Super Duper and then the Graphene has me really excited by a new balance of frequencies and dynamics and texture. I don't know how many times I've hit a new "plateau" like this and said "this is the best sound I've ever had in my home". . . and I have a strong suspicion that due to the evolution and support and sharing of others here. . . there will be more times.

Life is good. So good. Because of music, and because of this communal curiosity and communicaton.

+++ Bloodlemons.
I have spent several years on Agon and check in on Hoffman and a few others and the trolling, politics and skeptic arguing can grate on you.  I recently joined this forum after receiving my Torii Jr. in January and I find this a more intimate tight group that is refreshing.  I have learned so much on Agon and now here on Decware.  It’s a pleasure to listen and implement your shared experise.  Many Thanks!

I agree, this is one of the refuges in a crazy world thank goodness, where we tend to carefully respect and support one another in our home audio quests.

Not just in audio, seems it is a mess out there in most arenas with so much cultivation of conflict now a political/cultural pattern. Such a shame, meanness and associated polarization becoming so widespread that it seems to be self-perpetuating, even revered. No doubt, that this forum is not so caught by that stuff is a reason many of us hang out here.

But we did not magically arrive at this special place. Like Lon said, Steve's creative hopes, dedication and excitement for making home audio better for himself and all of us has been, and remains an important foundation. But the forum has not stayed awake, friendly and informative without great effort by a lot of us trying to keep it civil, friendly and informative...trying to cultivate those patterns, and trying to solve deviations from them.

A healthy family in a disjointed world seems to take some work to be good and to get better, and off and on we have definitely had some rough challenges here in trying to hold onto and improve this place as the special place it is.

Luckily, with most of us noticing, loving, and supporting this pattern, this gives our special nature a lot of sustaining power. But even so, we have had to work pretty hard at times to clear up some folk's efforts to degrade these patterns by recalcitrantly trying to infuse our conversations with conflict. Luckily this has worked so far!

There dozens of Will's posts I'd love to like that many times! I agree it has been some work and also lots of play to keep the atmosphere here as we like it. And what a resource!

Just as these are phenomenal products, this is a phenomenal place.

I think it helps that our fearless leader constantly refers to the "Audio Gods" as his inspiration for new designs. That's a pretty high bar for unconventional thinking compared to what the rest of us are usually tinkering with and chatting about.  ;D

Agreed about the good people gathered here, it's very refreshing compared to just about any other forum I regularly read. As a relative newb compared to some of you, I've felt welcomed. I read as many posts as I can and it's been a huge education which is in no way near done. Thanks to everyone for being great and also willing to share your knowledge, it's beyond invaluable.  

Will, as I read your post I kept thinking "the dog caught the car, now what???"

Will, yes you figured it out correctly! Sorry, I should have been less cryptic there!

......long conversation between distant friends. Well put bloodlemons. I have been conversing with Lon from the original Forum since 2001 (yes 2001). ...and others, forgive me if I forget from that first year.

Jeff of Arabica......Jeff, I speak to often via text over the past few years. Plan on meeting him at the Dallas show next year. However, I could surprise him in Anaheim this late fall .......once he opens.
www.stonegroovestillhouse.com

Mark, I can relate on a personal level....having a ship to and bill to and USPS vs. Fedx or UPS....it's a nightmare when I order something......55 and older retirement .....beautiful Park ....but pain in the Arse!

Yes, reading the follow up review now..........

and yes, I just told Kamran couple posts above.....I'm good on the HP Sluggo.....yeah right? I will order the graphene.......

I have taken so many calculated consequences with to and from shipping and 5% restocking fees.....
this is a no brainer .....peanuts.

Congratulations Mark & Damien on the wonderful review. The SDFB has been such a major upgrade in my system. Ordering another for my CSP3 this weekend.

Also, I know both of you take the VeraFi Audio offerings and customer service seriously. I'd chalk the SnubWay shipping delay up as a lesson learned with the relocation of your distribution center. There are just some things in life we simply can't control, like the weather, etc  Personally I have faith in the great team you have assembled Mark. The quality of your products and responsive communications speak volumes to me. It's something sorely missing in so many people these days.

Rock on and blessings to you and your families.

HK

I sympathize. With the recent additions of SDFB and Sluggos and the shift to the Black Treasure 300B-Z and to 6CG7 driver tubes I am hearing deep into recordings with lifelike dynamics and a great balance of frequencies. I probably should log out of this forum and just rest on this plateau without learning of new parts, components, philosophies and modus operandi that will change things in even the most subtle ways--I'm that satisfied.

Ha, it will never happen. This place is more than under my skin, it's soft tissue.

Today I received the Graphene Sluggo,  and tonight I had the pleasure of listening to it.  All I can say is that it is very impressive - right from the start. My system sounds great. Fresh, clear, one of those big steps in the right direction, not a subtle change. Perhaps just a bit bright, but I am still in hours 1-4, I bet it will mellow some.

Thanks Mark. I know we are also celebrating getting Snubway out today, and I look forward to it soon. In the mean time, this Sluggo is more than I expected.

I swapped out the Super Sluggo. I think it is also referred as Gold Plated Copper,  but from my notes, it was Super Sluggo.