I am thinking the same Lon, noticing some pretty notable changes this last week these hollow slugs burning in must be contributing to...

I'd say your observations are worth a lot Hearafter as we try to sort out how we might choose and roll slugs, and how their traits might fit into different components and system/rooms. May be more semantics and burnin differences, but other than the Golden States being clearer there than the hollow silvers, and the hollow Rhodium highs causing variable voice presentation, I think your impressions of the slug traits mirror mine.

Once more fully burned in here, seems to me the hollow silver reveals the resolution ranges pretty completely, similarly as the Golden State, but coming in a more spacious way. Whereas, the Golden State, powering the power supply and signal more, it is denser, fuller, and warmer, yet not so full/warm as to reduce complex detail in a big way. And along with the rest, it sounds to me like detail is more strongly presented, making it more focussed with more macro dynamics. So my thought is that they have similar resolution, but present it differently. This is what I liked about the GS here, and similarly the Verafi copper... they push everything notably harder than fuses without losing many aspects of complexity. But as I have said, this level of power push is also what tends to be too much for me in my already dense/full/warmish/resolving system...

So for me, different slug flavors depending on the amount of metal and the type of metal, have been good explorations.....

That the amount of metal changes the sound is no longer hypothetical for me. I feel sure that if we could try 3 slugs of exactly the same metal, 6mm like Golden States, 5mm like Mark's, and hollow, there would be a notable gradation from darker/denser/fuller, to more open and resolving of space and finer information. With my tube gear, more signal intensity to a point shows the range of information more intensely. Then it balances toward bass and associated fullness showing most obviously while consolidating midrange information... Alternately if less powerful, balanced less toward bass and fullness, it will be more open and spacious, empty space needed to reveal more complete nuances of textures and harmonic information...finer detail stuff... more space contrasting the finer information that can get overwhelmed with fullness and consolidation. So I think it is all balancing act, what we like, and likely reaching these, to me, limits, differently with different components and system/rooms.

Interestingly, reading the last paragraph over, I could have been talking about gain tuning, how I tune these balances being a lot about enhancing the signal power and pulling the most from it without it getting too strong. Now I am thinking my gain stages in combination, doing similar things with the signal as sluggos, are part of why my system already had qualities the sluggos help provide, and why sluggos took it too far for me. Again, making me glad we have many viable choices for tuning with different slugs and sluggos.

The Rhodium plate hollows in my pre, and in my PSaudio P5 were on the lean and clean side here also. Whereas, in my digital, they are pretty amazing, partly burned in, I just hear resolving/open revelation with that smooth Rhodium sheen... seemingly none of the complex information masked, important at the beginning. I experienced crazy highs at first in my CSP3 and amp, but they started to settled pretty quickly, and I think continue to smooth out. Now the Rhodium are in my digital and in my warm/rich/complex 300B/845 amp. Partially modified to solve what was to me, excess warmth in its design, the amp was good with fuses. But with slugs everywhere, the clearer hollow Silver with Rhodium sound that was lean in the CSP3 and P5, is balanced nicely by the amp and its rich/giant tubes.

I wonder how long, especially these Rhodiums will take to smooth out and resolve fully. I have Furutech Rhodium jacks on a UPOCC copper headphone cable. It sounded pretty good within a few days of 24 hour burnin, but I was amazed how it kept changing, taking close to 300 to even out as I recall. And every day my sound is still improving now, though nothing is particularly new in there except one slug. Looking back at my Ali orders, my first Silver and Rhodium, both hollow, were put in the system about 5/12, so about 40 days @ ~6-7 hours a day, ±240-280 hours... The second order, also a Silver and Rhodium hollow, went in ~5/25, so ±168-196. And the last Rhodium, in the Singxer, went in ~ 6/15, ±36-42 hours. I am pretty sure I can attribute these smoothing and openly resolving changes lately at least in part to the earlier slugs still being on the move along with the newer one, perhaps including the hollow silver, as this is relatively notable refinement happening.

 

Finally, variations in tastes and system/rooms clearly effect our choices, and though real for sure, I continue to wonder if we tend to give too much weight to preference differences... Considering different components, or cables, or tubes, there are always those that are most popular and that stay in systems longer, implying some broader senses of consistency in tastes anyway... at least for many. Same with rooms at audio shows, typically there is a lot of agreement on "the best room," or best digital, or whatever.

Still, how we make our systems, progressively shaping our sound, that progression and how it fits together defines what we want as we try to improve. With so much nice stuff out there, and every piece having its individual way of presenting music, seems how we put things together can happen in literally thousands of ways. Every DAC, cable, platform and feet, power and power treatment, tubes, amps, pre stages etc, etc... they all sound different from one another... including fuses, or sluggos as we are learning! And room effecting each and every part of a system, seems unlikely that any of our rooms are just like another's. So where each of us start, and how each balances things together to find the sound we love, especially with new things like Sluggos that are pretty powerful influences on sound balances, it is not surprising that one or another works better in a given setting and in various components.

All systems balancing acts, I am guessing most are likely conglomerations of various levels of compensations... As an example, Fast 15s, Crystal 10s, or Platinum 10 Lii drivers in nice baffles or boxes, built to be super fast and clear drivers and accentuating that fast clarity with upper mid bumps... as I recall, Steve had to adjust some of them down a bit. But adjusted or not, very fast and clear speakers would naturally contribute to future choices, likely defining different needs and choices than starting with also nice, but comparatively softer/warmer/slower HR-1s.... And countless other setup variations inevitably define what is "best" to improve a system at a given time.

So how much of what we love as additions is defined by how well it fills in missing aspects of the preferred sound? And how many even minor compensations led to the current ones? This is a reason why I try to avoid compensations. It gets a little confusing knowing what is causing what, and it is just easier for me to stay on track holding a baseline of relative neutrality. Also, I think ultimate musical resolution is probably easier to find with less colored, yet musically resolving things. But to me, the SDFB is doing important things, potentially a paradigm shifter, so I adjusted the system in a number of relatively smallish ways (mostly), that combined, added up enough to allow it to integrate and utilize "sluggos" with relative neutrality.

Another factor looking at sluggos... I am guessing that the number of them in a setup could notably effect specific choices. If one has one in one component, and another has 5 or 6, the power of their effects so different than fuses, choices seem likely to change as we add more and more. I have six in right now, and every one effects the whole x 6.  

In this context, and since my system already did most of the balances the sluggos do compared to fuses, the solids still tend to be too strong here. So at this stage of my room sound, I like the milder push of the hollows. Being closer to neutral, yet compared to fuses, still amping things up with more powerful/smooth/resolved signals... they change the balances less here... in this room, leaving more complete musical complexities across the range in balance, a less colored sound.

Just my story at this time and in this setting!

And remember everyone... to try them all both ways!

Hey Will. I was curious, you make mention that your Golden State Silver slugs are 6mm. Mine didn’t seem different from the ones I got from Mark, so I checked the paperwork I got from Golden State. They gave detailed test results with their slugs. Mine are shown to be 0.205” in diameter, or 5.207mm. Were yours shown to be thicker? Was curious about their consistency.

As I suspected, the Super Piggy construction is something of a trade secret, but Mark hooked me up with enough info to do what I need to do. Thanks Mark!

Thanks Hearafter. That tracks with what I have.
LB

Thanks for your measurement confirmation.  I was wondering if  fuse sizes were a moving target.
I spent some time rolling slugs in my Preamp and Torii Jr.  and I have validated that finding the right slug combination and synergy between components matters.  Very similar to tubes in my experience so far. After more playing time with the Rhodium/silver hollow it seems to have smoothed out a tad with better mids (or maybe I am just getting used and adjusting to its differences).  What I have noticed on my system is the more detailed Rhodium hollow really brings out details out into the room I have not experienced before but doesn’t provide the full sounding meat in the mids and upper bass that the solid silver, copper and gold plated copper provides.
After comparing silver rhodium and silver hollow in both components the Rhodium wins hands down.  After comparing Rhodium in both components the Rhodium just sounds too thin and “hollow” in the Torii Jr. but really works in the preamp when the amp has a solid slug. Components the draw more power demands may prefer solid slugs🤔.
My preferences after rolling now are:  
Pre-amp: Hollow Rhodium/ Silver for more detail holographic sound or solid GS silver for a richer more full sound.  
Torii Jr.: Gold plated copper compliments the rhodium/silver and solid silver with slight warmth and a fuller sound.  
Using silver in both components is too much and I prefer using silver in one component and copper in the other. This is just my system with my ears so others may experience a different outcome.

Graphene Sluggo Owners:  Can anyone provide feedback on what kind of performance gain you noticed when compared to Super Sluggo (gold/copper), Solid Silver or Solid copper?  Is it worth the $200 and would you buy it again if you knew how it performed? I am on the fence on this guy and I’m  trying to get off the Sluggo train….Thanks in advance!

Interesting and thanks…do you have a SDFB for each component or are you going free and wild?  You are Mark’s best friend

Ha! I would be proud to have Mark as a best friend!

I have SDFBs on the two Sorcers, the ZMA and the STR. I may put one on the STR-104 I have coming. We'll see if it's necessary. All of my components run into the Sorcers, each protected by its respective SDFB, even my "free and wild" components should be out of harm's way.

Lon, Tony and Bloodlemons - Insightful! Thanks

Keep us posted!

Thanks for those who posted up what sluggo they’re using. I’m still rolling with the basic copper. I’m interested in the others, but I’m sticking with copper until I can shake out/dial in my new to me UFO25. Adding different sluggos right now would just confuse the situation. Of note, this week I started flipping the sluggo direction. For the UFO25 and CSP2+ I didn’t notice a significant change, in the ZP3 it was immediate and I flipped it back.

(reposted in the proper thread)
I don’t know the answer to your question, as I only just started to burn in a couple of brass. I always assume 300 hours until proven otherwise.

On the subject of graphene, Mark says the graphene sluggo process is, “HP Copper as the substrate and Vacuum Deposited Graphene.” In addition, NPS-Q45T contact enhancer contains graphene.

So far, the most I'm seeing with the Graphene is a palpable volume boost. Tonally I am on the fence. This is in the ZMA, fwiw. Obvs, time may prove otherwise.

300 hours? Hmmmm.

I just put the Graphene back in as I was way short of that.  Thanks guys.

Stay tuned 😉

I'm just getting started with the SDFB and sluggos, using a 5-15P to C13 AC adapter off Amazon. Saturday, I started with the GG/Poseidon dac and super copper/gold, but found it dull from the get go (I had taken out a QSA red/black). It was the kind of dull that makes one think it won't basically change. After a couple of hours, I swapped in the brass and was soon in love... Just the touch of warmth -- touch not romantic -- I was looking for. The kind that had me listening to the music vs. the equipment for hours.

Sunday I added the second unit with brass to my VAC Master preamp (a PITA), also taking out a red-black. While the overall sound improved in obvious and welcome ways -- though there was some added roughness -- most importantly the touch of warmth had disappeared. The tone had slipped over the divide into neutral. Will 300 (or more) hours of use bring it back? This is a different kind of unit, so I don't know. All I can do is be patient and hope, unless someone indicates otherwise. If it doesn't, I'll have to consider returning the second unit for a different amp value to try it elsewhere ( I'll also be getting copper sluggos, which Mark labels as "natural," when they come in, but I'm not a fan of Rhodium and have some NPS-Q45T that has graphene if I want to try that).

One physical thing I notice is that on my P15 Regenerator the width of the SDFB using the 2" (net) adapter is a tight and in some locations impossible fit next to standard Furutech connectors. I'm not sure how many could be used at once without including some pigtails. Mark tells me that he is aware of the adapter issue and working on an elegant solution.

I look forward to it. Mark wrote me that the brass is the warmest. For the  first minutes the brass + brass was too warm, then it switched.

Thanks. There are three adapters on Amazon. I'm not sure if they are made by the same Chinese factory or not. I chose the only one that mentioned "pure copper." I (and Mark) found a three-way adapter for Puron type devices at Home Depot to be very good sonically, while others they sell are not. I found the same kind of thing years ago with some USB computer adapters. While degrading doesn't usually affect tone in the way the second brass did, I'll give a WyWires Platinum power cable a try.

Highstream:  My Amazon adapter listed “pure copper” in the description but I don’t know where it was hiding.  Silver prongs looked like a standard extension cord plug.  Hope they work for you.  I liked the concept of eliminating a cable. 
I am using a 3 way plug for a Puron, Snubway and ground box.  Can you share a link or picture the home depot 3 way plug you found.  I am using the basic heavy duty ones they sell at xmas.
Appreciate it!

Highstream: Thank you for the link.  Talk to Mark about directionality of sluggos.  

Not a single one of my Sluggos have "Sluggo" engraved into it. That would certainly make it easier to keep track of directionality!

Good Morning

On Super Duper and Graphene we canoot laser them

The rest are labeled...

Thanks as always - Mark

I checked my Sluggos and the copper are indeed marked but the Super-Sluggos are not except for the one 6x32 Super-Sluggo I got with my first order. I don't have any fuses in my system that size, but you never know what will happen in the days to come!

However, I haven't noticed any difference with Sluggo directionality in my system. It might be something I spend more time on in the future, but I'm not too concerned about it at the moment.

I decided to put a Graphene in each of my Sorcers. So far, I'm getting more detail, but losing some of the depth/width of the soundstage, plus a tad bit of the "musicality." However, my Graphene Sluggos haven't seen many hours of use yet, so I'm going to leave them in place for a while and see how they season.

Kamran- Ditto on all accounts here.  Not going to fuss with direction of Sluggo’s and prefer the Super Gold Sluggo in my Torii Jr.  Also liking the hollow rhodium/silver in pre and solid silver in DAC.  May go back to solid silver in pre just need more time on the hollow rhodium. Haven’t bought the Graphene.

I would be surprised if you didn't hear it in your room Kam... just try it in something you can easily access, like your amp.