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New DECWARE Folded Horn (Read 80986 times)
Palomino
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #150 - 09/28/23 at 13:48:30
 
NP GS.  Loving your base thread.
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Geno
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #151 - 10/09/23 at 01:17:47
 
Pal, Kam, etc.

I anxiously await reviews of y’all’s experiences with:

1) headwreckers evaluation. Specifically how they compare to same driver in open baffles.

2) Wathen open baffle evaluation. Again, compared to PT-10 in headwreckers and open baffles.

3) complete synopsis of the fest, specifically the highlights.

Thanks,

Geno
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Dave B.S.
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #152 - 10/13/23 at 00:19:28
 
Hi Steve, is there a design to follow for the internal diffusers in the Headwrecker?  Also, a newbie question: how do you secure the baffle to the speaker cabinet since you can't get to the back of the baffle. What hardware works best for that?  Thanks for a great design and for your support to us diyers.

Dave
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PDXDrew
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #153 - 10/14/23 at 16:56:34
 
+1 on waiting for Headwrecker impressions.....
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Brian
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #154 - 10/15/23 at 22:51:35
 
+2
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #155 - 10/23/23 at 18:11:45
 

There are several comments about them in the DECFEST 2023 thread.  I think the first comment starts here:
https://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1688600764/101#101
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Mamu
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #156 - 11/01/23 at 00:06:05
 
Hello everyone,
Slowly and painstakingly; relying on my rudimentary carpentry skills;   I am building speakers for P10 drivers based on Steve’s DFH Plans.
What is the best way to fix craft felt and foam to the panels inside to properly secure them?  Do I just use wood glue or nail them?

Thank you
Mamuka
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4krow
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #157 - 11/01/23 at 15:56:38
 
I guess that wood glue works, but I tend to like rubber cement or contact adhesive. I would avoid nails in general, because with each hammering, you are beating all the other joints as well.
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Same Old DD
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #158 - 11/01/23 at 19:16:34
 
I agree with 4krow!
Any time I have added compressed woven felt to the inside of an enclosure with wood glue, it absorbed too deeply into the felt and turned 1/4 inch felt into about 1/8 inch depth.
Then the glue hardens and you have almost like the wood itself where the glue absorbed too deeply into the felt, making the felt less effective.

I have used 3M Super 77 spray contact adhesive with much greater success.
Don't even need much on the felt.
I don't bother with staples or nails for this.

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Mamu
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #159 - 11/09/23 at 01:05:57
 
Thank you Same Old DD and 4krow for advice.
I'll do testing with different contact adhesives before installing felts and foams into cabinets.
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maddog07
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #160 - 11/10/23 at 22:33:21
 
3M 77 Super spray adhesive is the stickiest stuff I have ever seen.  It will stick anything.  And it's cured in two minutes or less - make sure you have everything where you want it before you join the parts... because in about 60 seconds you ain't moving it without tearing something.
It's kind of like "duct tape" you never want to be without it.

**tip #1: for least stick, only spray one of the two surfaces to be joined.  If you really want them stuck - spray both surfaces, wait 30 seconds and press them together.  

**tip #2:  make sure you turn the can upside down after each use and spray a little propellent out to clear the nozzle - to avoid a clog next use.
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4krow
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #161 - 11/11/23 at 03:53:17
 
 The stuff is good alright, But don't try to stick a big piece of matting through a bass driver hole and think you aren't going to be Pi**ed before you are done. A little her, and then a little there will accomplish what you need until you have it all. I do like the quick stick of the product but just be patient with it.
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Same Old DD
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #162 - 11/11/23 at 13:24:05
 
You guys are all correct. 3M Super 77 is really a strong, dependable adhesive.
I figure if you guys are out there building Steve's latest creation, then you are in this for real and not just playing here.

I suppose I could have added a caveat, a yeah but and a what if regarding this powerful product before recommending it.
A what if might be that if you have no experience using contact cement, then get some before you try it on your carefully sawn to fit pieces.

It is the best contact cement I have used and even works as NOT a contact cement if you need. Using it as just a spray on glue, you have thirty or forty seconds to reposition things if you need - quite unlike using it as a contact cement.

3M also makes a heat activated contact cement, where you smear it on and allow it to dry. (takes a long time to dry sufficiently)
Then you can place things and reposition them until they are just right, tack them in place. It won't stick yet. This product does not bind until you use heat to activate the bond.

Sorry, I can't remember the catalog designation of that product right now, but it has proven to me to be inconvenient for internal speaker enclosure use.
It works better as an edge binding for veneer along a plywood edge or applying cork joint seals on woodwind tenons.
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Donnie
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #163 - 01/13/24 at 21:51:16
 
So has anyone completed their copy of their HeadWrecker yet?

I'm starting to get thinking about this upcoming year's projects and the thought of these speakers are intriguing me.
Lot's of time to do thing after April, retirement opens up my dance card.

I'm just wondering how the builds go? Is it pretty straightforward?

The second thought that comes to mind is if some other driver would work in the place of the Lii?

Maybe even a 2 way with a tweeter.

My mind is always churning out bad ideas.
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #164 - 01/16/24 at 14:51:45
 
My Headwrecker journey has been long but it looks like they will be finished by mid February.

As a recap...I got many quotes for the cabinet builds from 18K$ to finally 2K$ each box from my Amish kitchen builders. They have a new Bessie CNC and will include paint work. The design is modified to use rabbet slots for the internal bracing, this will make the glue up easy. I also modified the diffusers to be acoustic foam I has from a studio build. The internal pillow is same as what Steve used. The paint is SkuffX midnight black satin. I almost added casters but decided against it because they would ruin  the wood floors so I'll use sliders. I am going to put the wiring terminals in the front as Steve did and probably use the wings because my room is long. Needless to say the anticipation is exciting and I'll be using the UFO amp and also try the R8. I will post some photo's when they are complete.
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #165 - 01/26/24 at 13:36:16
 
Hi Steve,

What did you use for the baffle and wing mounting nuts?
MDF inserts  E-Z LOK Threaded Inserts? flush or flange?
My set of horns will be complete soon!

Thank you!

BTW I was surprised to see you using AMT's!
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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #166 - 01/26/24 at 16:04:41
 
The wings use cabinet screws from the inside, while the baffle uses 5/16 threaded bolts with inserts.
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #167 - 02/01/24 at 18:37:45
 
Hi Steve,
Do you think it's okay to use 1/4" threaded bolts with inserts to mount the speaker baffle. I would have to order 5/16" and assemble is scheduled for just a few days away.

Thanks
John
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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #168 - 02/27/24 at 19:31:40
 
Finally making progress...


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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
Dragonfly RED
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Donnie
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #169 - 02/27/24 at 21:34:10
 
Exciting!

My problem would be that I wouldn't be able to sleep after I started putting them together. All nighters until I could listen to them.
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #170 - 02/27/24 at 22:27:44
 
I wish I could do that! At least it's almost glue up time. A day to paint and dry... moving...installing driver... can't wait!
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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #171 - 02/28/24 at 18:46:28
 
Hi Donnie,
Are you still planning on building a set of DFH's?
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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
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Donnie
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #172 - 02/29/24 at 09:56:45
 
DJ,
I am still thinking of building myself a pair here in a few months.

My idea at this time is to perhaps use a different driver, well, just because.

Maybe a coaxial driver because they seem to have my attention right now.

I need something to keep myself occupied!
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #173 - 02/29/24 at 18:20:24
 
Donnie,
What driver are you considering?
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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
Dragonfly RED
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #174 - 03/07/24 at 11:13:58
 

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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
Dragonfly RED
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Same Old DD
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #175 - 03/07/24 at 21:58:22
 
Looks great DJ.

Are your enclosures all MDF or is that nice plywood clamp up a part of these?

I might be a little jealous. My project is moving along like two snails snorting salt. Very slowly.

I can't wait to see one of these built "in the wild" and be profoundly successful.
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #176 - 03/08/24 at 11:04:16
 









The DFH are coming along. They are made of MFD with a (for now) plywood baffle. The MDF was cut on a new Bessie CNC machine and assembled by me and my cabinet builder. The first unit took awhile to figure out and the second unit was glued up in 3 hours. Steve's prints are very good but I will send him some suggestions to modify the prints for easier assembly.  The speaker baffle could be better if made with 1" material because the P-10 driver is pretty heavy. TIP: When installing the threaded inserts in the baffle, use a drill press to make sure they go in straight.  I think I will make another set with round stone baffles.

So, today is the final paint. We will not use the "SkufX" as planned but a fine oil base matte black.

These cabinets will be very good I think because we just tap the "tree stump pillow"  inside and hear a lovely thump emanating from the horn opening. These boxes are wooden amplifiers!
I encourage people dreaming of building these to do it, it's very satisfying and I'm almost sad that the building process is complete. We will test them with a UFO in the shop. My shop people are not permitted to listen to musical instruments, only acapella gospel singing, so I have to find some of that type of music. All in all, I'm very excited in this exercise in obsession.  

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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
Dragonfly RED
DIY Headwre
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1stwattlife
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #177 - 03/08/24 at 21:33:25
 
Being intimately familiar with the aptly named "head wreckers" I am super stoked to get your impressions.

I feel like this will be a fantastic cabinet to have around for a long time.

If "Carpentry is the art of building dreams with wood" then you are well on your way to dreamland. Wink
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #178 - 03/09/24 at 03:32:47
 
Congratulations!  They look well executed.

Steve Smiley
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Steve Deckert
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #179 - 03/09/24 at 03:35:07
 


We are missing a piece in the first bend of the horn flare!

It is piece "I".




It h as to be there or the response will be terrible.

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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #180 - 03/09/24 at 11:51:48
 
Steve, Thank you for noticing. I will check.
If missing, I hop I can get that "I" piece in there!
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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
Dragonfly RED
DIY Headwre
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4krow
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #181 - 03/09/24 at 16:52:39
 
In such a case it (piece I) may have to be cut into two pieces to allow it fit easier into that tight space.
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DJFreon
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #182 - 03/09/24 at 22:25:02
 
Yes, I pray it will fit without too much fuss.
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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
Dragonfly RED
DIY Headwre
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DJFreon
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Posts: 61
Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #183 - 03/12/24 at 21:35:53
 
The first reflector wedge "I" went in with no trouble! Final Paint today.
Drivers fit well. Should be able to test play early next week.
Steve's go me crazy talking about a new better driver.
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Allen & Heath Xone 92
TAD TSM-300 Willsenson R8
KRK V88 ESS AMT x 4, Bi amp tube amps, Dr. Bag PP amp Douk KT88 fed DBX 234 Lii 10S SEUFO84
Douk B300 mono blocks tube amps ESS AMT 3
SDX12 DBX 510 Sunfire
Denon & Tascam
Dragonfly RED
DIY Headwre
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JBzen
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #184 - 03/13/24 at 13:18:08
 
Excellent work DJFreon. Nice shop too. Don't let Steve's adventures get under your skin! It just his foresight in design that leads to improvements....hopefully anyways.
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1stwattlife
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #185 - 03/13/24 at 16:07:55
 
These DIY builds are exciting! These cabinets sound amazing in the Decware listening room.... but, when it is in YOUR home... yeah, you know... Keep on keeping on guys!
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #186 - 03/16/25 at 03:29:20
 
To be honest, didn’t think I would be able to complete this project on my own in my small garage, but finally, I am at finish line.
Body – MDF veneered in American walnut
Baffle – Solid American walnut timber




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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #187 - 03/16/25 at 03:44:19
 
Wow, Mamu! You built those in THAT space? Great job.

Randy
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Donnie
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #188 - 03/16/25 at 04:06:14
 
I now have speaker envy!
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Alex Scott
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #189 - Yesterday at 02:03:46
 
Bit of a newb here. Just got set up with CNC access at my local makerspace and I'm considering this build. I want to ask if someone could help answer a couple questions for me:

-Is there a reason for choosing MDF over Baltic Birch Plywood? From my limited knowledge BBPly is superior?
-Is this too much speaker for a 14x14' room with 8' ceiling? At best I can make an 9' triangle from listening position to speakers.
-Anyone have any luck building a DIY gizmo 2? Internals looks pretty simple, seems like a quick way to save close to $1k.

Thank you!
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #190 - Yesterday at 13:24:12
 
Alex

Welcome to the Decware Forum. Several posters are speaker builders, but I am not one of them, unfortunately 😄. With that said I can offer some insights that might be helpful to your journey.

Let's start with your listening room of 14'x14'. Square rooms are notorious for wreaking havoc with a systems frequency response. The main problem with square rooms is that resonances across the width of the room will result in peaks & nulls at the same frequencies as resonances along the length of the room. For example: subwoofers are placed to get rid of a null at 35Hz but that null still shows up in measurements. That's because the placement might have fixed the width mode at 35Hz but it didn't fix the length mode at that same frequency. I suggest you look into this issue carefully and check out reputable companies that can help you with treatment options. Whichever way you go with your speaker build selection, you'll likely benefit from treating your room to address likely issues.

On the folded horn selection you might check with Steve to see whether a folded horn design with your amp & source equipment will work in your small room. FWIW I have a small listening room 13.5'x15.5' with a Decware ZMA amp and CSP3 preamp plus good source equipment. I have found the Caintuck Audio hardwood open baffle design with the Lii Audio F15 drivers produce the most accurate sound. I have treated my room with inexpensive hard foam diffuser panels to address the rear firing sound waves created by the open baffle design. Many forum members have built there own baffles (all sorts of materials - butcher block, plywood, etc.) with good results. Just some additional fodder for your consideration.

Best wishes for your musical journey.

HK
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #191 - Yesterday at 17:36:29
 
HockessinKid

Thanks for the feedback. Do you have any recommended literature about the room response? This seems like something I need to educate myself on.

I did consider the Caintuck open baffles and emailed Randy not too long ago. I was considering that as a cheaper and faster setup while I looked into building something more elaborate. I've been considering a No.2155 build from Joseph Crowe Audio or a Lowther Acousta PM6 build as well. I bought a used SE84UFO2 and just sent it to Decware for service (fingers crossed it's in good shape). I guess the main thing with the Caintuck baffles seemed like the design was made for that small Betsy driver, the baffle just looks too lean after boring all the wood out needed to accommodate the Lii 15. If anything I'm considering building the Zen Master which maintains the original proportions (or at least the zen medium)
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Donnie
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #192 - Yesterday at 17:43:22
 
Alex,

I have built a speaker or two through the years and hopefully I can answer why MDF is recommended.

MDF machines better than ply, you won't have near as much problem with blow out of you cuts because MDF doesn't have grain.

Speaking of grain, you don't have the problem of lining up your grain while you cut it so that your finished piece isn't a patchwork of mismatched grain.

MDF is deader sounding, it absorbs vibrations better.
It also takes paint better and veneers better.

Also, and this is probably the biggest thing, MDF is cheaper.

Since this is your first project and you are planning on using a CNC, well you are going to make mistakes, might as well use cheap material.
I was in the CNC business for 46 years and I will guarantee mistakes will be made!

Lately I've been working more with solid wood, but that is more for the challenge.

Hopefully this helps you out.
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Alex Scott
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #193 - Yesterday at 17:54:30
 
Thanks Donnie.

All that makes sense. I just did a bit of searching on diyAUDIO and it's looking like a debate on chicken and the egg. I suppose a less controversial question is: Are the two materials interchangeable, or will building this in plywood throw off the end result (since original design is using MDF)?
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HockessinKid
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #194 - Yesterday at 18:00:31
 
Alex,

Here is a link to some good initial video tutorials from GIK:

https://www.gikacoustics.com/educational-videos/

HK
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Nottingham Interspace TT > Modwright PH 9.0XT phono preamp OR MWI modded Cambridge CNX V2 > CSP3-25th Ann. preamp > STL STR-1002 Super > ZMA-25th Ann. amp > PI Audio UberBUSS > Caintuck Audio Lii15 Magnum speakers > VeraFi SDFB's > SA AUVA's > SRA & ZenWave cables
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CAJames
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Re: New DECWARE Folded Horn
Reply #195 - Yesterday at 18:22:48
 
Welcome Alex, and congratulations on your UFO2.

I have a room similar in size to yours and IMO these speakers are too big, maybe way too big. I’m curious what about them appeals to you? You can see my gear in my sig but I will say that while recreating a Who concert in my listening room isn’t a priority my 6 1/2 single driver stand mounted monitors can blow the roof off when I’m in that kind of mood. My listening priorities are things like detail and transparency, which may not line up with what you’re looking for (why a UFO amp in that case?) but I feel like you’d be better served with a physically smaller speaker.
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