New page, next Beethoven symphony. No. 8 is one of the least loved of The Nine and I admit it took me a long time to fully appreciate it. Much like the 4th, its charms are more introspective in nature and it requires a little more attention, if not study, before the actual genius in the work reveals itself. But I assure you the genius is there in the development and interplay of the themes.



On CD.

No one talks about "great Beethoven's 8ths" (see least loved above) but Herbert Bloomstedt and the Dresden Staatskapelle certainly do a great job bring out the wit and humor in the work.

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This is a perfect setup. I did in fact study a fair amount of music theory back in the day, but (just like a lot of other things in life) theory and practice are very different experiences. The  rhythmic, harmonic and melodic innovations and subtleties in e.g. Beethoven's 8th or the finale of Brahm's  4th are a means to an end, not the point of the music. Great music is written exactly to "fit together in ways I can't fully explain" and while a deeper study can reveal some deeper truths it is neither a necessary or even a sufficient condition to enjoy the listening experience. Just listening to a piece a few times is all the "study" that is required. When you get to the Late Beethoven String Quartets you will experience and hopefully enjoy the ultimate example of this.

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I am, I hope you are too! I feel like I want to keep this "tradition" going and just cycle through different performances of The Nine each time a page on this thread turns over. I have lived with these symphonies for 50 years and I know them so well I hardly ever listened to them, in spite of having many different performances. So this exercise has really been great for me, listening to the works with fresh ears.

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Oh boy. One of my favorite lines in this thread (JMO, YMMV) is that the Germans invented academic musical criticism, and declared themselves the winners. And one of the big losers was Antonin Dvorak.

<long historical digression>For those who don't know, Brahms and Dvorak were good friends, and had a great deal of mutual respect and admiration for each others work. Like Haydn and Mozart. But, in the conventional wisdom, Brahms is a superhero (which is certainly true) and Dvorak is a wannabe sidekick (which couldn't be further from the actual truth).  Brahms wrote glorious music that was both listenable and academically sophisticated. Dvorak wrote music that is so ingratiatingly tuneful that it wasn't possible for the critics to take him seriously. Because (German) academic musical criticism is good at harmony, but has no way to process a catchy tune. And Dvorak wrote more catchy tunes per capita than anyone who ever lived. His music doesn't have the academic sophistication of Brahms (no one since Bach or Handel does) but there is plenty of form and substance to go along with the pretty melodies. So, academic musical criticism can suck it, and I declare Dvorak every bit the superhero that Brahms is.</long historical digression>

I love Dvorak, but I haven't heard the Belohlavek recordings. I looked it up on Qoboz and the first "song" is the first symphony, aka The Bells of Zionice. And all I can say is if you like that you're going to love the later symphonies, starting with No. 4 where Dvorak really hit his stride as a symphonist, YMMV. My favorite view of the complete set is by Istvan Kertesz.



16/44 FLAC rips from CD.

Belohlavek is recent and I don't know if it has ever been released on LP. Kertez OTOH is prime analog London/Decca and if you can find it on vinyl you should jump on it. But I think it has probably been pretty well collected over the years.

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James…I wish I had the knowledge and depth of classical music as you.  Thanks for the recommendation…I am listening to the Symphonies again with Istvan Kertesz.  I can see why this album is a favorite.  As soon as I started playing it…I was drawn in wanting to pay close attention.  Kinda hard in my work vehicle, but I get by.  I sadly I won’t be able to listen to any music on my reference system until Saturday due to family functions, but at least I have great material lined up.  

The other album  I’m hoping to get to later on this morning.  

Finishing up (for now) the Beethoven middle quartets as performed by the Guarneri Quartet, with Opus 74 and Opus 95:



It always takes me multiple listens on classical music, and this was no exception.  That said, I think my favorite quartet so far is Opus 74 ("Harp"), and particularly movements 1 and 3.  I am still feeling like the middle quartets seem in some way fundamentally different than his symphonies, which is not what I felt when listening to his early quartets.

Next up for "study" are Beethoven's late quartets, performed by the Lasalle Quartet:

So, Manuel de Falla. I think I was in college when I saw Alfred Brendel do Noches en los jardines de España at the Hollywood Bowl, and it ruined me for de Falla for a long time. Because as great a pianist as Brendel certainly is, Spanish exoticism just isn't his thing, apparently. It wasn't until I heard Fritz Reiner that I realized what great music de Falla wrote.



DSD rip from SACD.

For me, El amor brujo (usually rendered in English as Love, the sorcerer) is just amazing. And when you get Reiner and the Chicago Symphony, Leontyne Price at her absolute best, and RCA Living Stereo engineering together you have something really special. The rest of the album is equally spectacular.

As an aside, I'd really like to dive into the Everest catalog, esp. their 20th century music. It is now available for download but at 10 to 12 bucks (or more) per 40 minute album that is a tough hill for my Scottish Heritage to climb. Hopefully they will package it into multidisc collections at some point and I can buy it at a more reasonable music-per-money ratio.

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That might be something my Scottish Heritage could live with .

So, I guess I was not the only one who listened to a Haydn "complete symphonies" box during COVID.  My box is probably more modest than yours, James, but still complete ("Haydn Symphonies Complete", Adam Fischer conducting the Austro-Hungarian Haydn Orchestra):



I had heard one Haydn symphony as a youngster, concluded that "Beethoven totally kicks his butt," and never circled back to give another listen until getting this box set - perhaps I was a bit shallow and hasty in my judgment!

While I listened to all of them, it was not very focused listening (I was working at home at the time, so it was background music).  It is a massive amount of music (this set recorded from 1987 to 2001).  At the time, I was looking at a website where a classical music writer was given an assignment to listen to all the symphonies and "put them in order of brilliance," but was (of course) very superficial and not meaningful.

It was on my mind the last few days to ask if you had listened to many Haydn symphonies (and now I know!), and if so, how you would think about exploring this music.  I am aware that the relatively late "London" and "Paris" symphonies are notable, as are the earlier "Sturm und Drang" symphonies.  

Any thoughts you can share off the top of your head?  Any there any that are your particular favorites?

(By the way, apologies in advance - I really appreciate and enjoy all the insights you share here, but please don't feel obligated to answer this kind of random question involving over 100 symphonies!)

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I have that box of Haydn symphonies as well . I like Dorati a little better, but Fisher is perfectly fine. I'm less fond of the Dennis Russell Davies, FWIW.

My advice would be to start with no.1 and work your way through them in order. My first trip through the 104 was mostly in the car on the days I drove into the office, and the car arranged them in order by key. So all the symphonies in A, then B and so on. I also listened to them at home in actual order. Another option would be to alternate between first and last i.e. 1, 104, 2, 103 etc. But the bottom line is you should listen to all of them.

People think unless a Haydn symphony has a name it isn't any good, but that is absolutely wrong (same with the Beethoven piano sonatas). Haydn didn't write any bad, or less than good symphonies and the ones without names every bit as good as the named. The first 70ish are not in strict chronological order, although no. 1 is actually the first symphony he composed.

P.P.S. My favorite Philosopher is by the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra.



On CD, from the Orpheus DG box.

Pretty much anything the OCO does is my favorite version of it.

In addition to inventing the symphony, Haydn pretty much invented (or re-invented) the string quartet, upgrading it from light, background music for meals or parties to a serious form for a composer to express some of her/his most sophisticated ideas. His Op. 20 quartets are really the birth of the modern string quartet, but the Op. 33 quartets written 10 years later are all grown up, YMMV.



16/44 FLAC download.

I'm no fan of the "historically informed performance" movement in general. But it seems like the Haydn quartets have suffered less, or maybe even benefited from HIP recordings, and the Quatuor Mosaïques is exhibit A. They aren't in a hurry to rush through the music and play with a lovely tone, that if it isn't exactly the Quartetto Italiano, is certainly easy on the ears.

Going back to the Baroque era and listening to some Pachelbel. While the most common choice is the Canon in D, in which I had a harpsichordist play at my wedding for the church…I opted to first listen to the Hexachordum Apollonias.  Once I’m done with a few varieties of this album, I’ll move over to his other masterpieces including Chaconne in F minor , Toccata in E Minor, Canon in D, and then jump into Bach.  

Currently streaming in Qobuz at work with my Dragonfly Red.  

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Ha!!…I can get past Pachelbel to keep your respect.  I wanted a harpist and a set of trumpets to play at our church.  And yes…my wife folded on the recommendations, one of them being Canon in D.   I was fine with it since no one out of our network of family and friends had those instruments play at the church.  We ultimately became friends, and she will be teaching my daughter the harp in the future once we can carve out time.  Miranda does the St. Patrick’s Day mass, and she does the yearly Christmas mass at the Newark Cathedral.   Very talented and a great person.  I’ll burn a copy for you when I get a chance and send it over.    

Thanks for the recommendation….I’m going to play it now.  To ease your pain….maybe give this album a try  from Pachelbel on Qobuz that I posted.  

In staying with Scarletti….I found this album from Ross that I’m playing now. For some reason I had a difficult time finding your album, so this one was the closest I could find. I also did find the 555 Sonatas done on the piano by Claudio Colombo, which is q a nice piece.  

James….. thanks for the tip!  I’m streaming the Scott Ross favorites now.  Excellent choice….I’m really enjoying it. He’s got great technique and all of notes are crisp.    The Claudio Colombo 555 Sonatas on the piano is good.  I gave it a second listen last night…and while I liked it….I felt that it’s lacking a bit soul.  I think  I’m going to see out another piano Sonata from a different artist to see the difference.