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Classical Music Thread (Read 158859 times)
CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #850 - 03/23/25 at 15:44:55
 
"Toccata" seems like a highfalutin musical word, but I had never seen an actual definition of it. So I looked it up in my Oxford Musical Dictionary, and it turns out it isn't highfalutin at all. It is basically a very early term for what became a "Prelude." Which could be pretty much anything, but usually a short piece that isn't specifically a dance. Bach wrote a bunch of toccatas, most famously toccatas and fugues for the organ. But he also wrote a series of keyboard toccatas that are not as well known as they should be.



On CD.

Like all the Bach that Glenn Gould plays his recordings of the toccatas are both interesting and wonderful.
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Dominick
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #851 - 03/24/25 at 16:26:25
 
Currently enjoying this album while at work from Narcisco Yepes streaming in Qobuz through my Dragonfly Red.  Beautiful Classical Spanish guitarist that I recently started to enjoy.



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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #852 - 03/24/25 at 16:30:03
 
New page and we are at Beethoven's 6th, aka The Pastoral. Inspired by Beethoven's walks in the woods outside Vienna, I went with Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt and Vienna Philharmonic from the late 60s.



On CD.

This is an outstanding collection of prime Vienna Phil: after they recovered from the war but before they lost the "Vienna Sound" and became just another virtuoso orchestra.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #853 - 03/24/25 at 23:19:30
 
It was said that "no one was more popular in life and more quickly forgotten after death" than Alexander Scriabin. And if he is not quite forgotten today it is fair to say he is on the fringe of the classical music world. Which is a shame because his music, which I'd call a mash-up of Liszt and Rachmaninov, is unique and very interesting.



16/44 FLAC download.

Marc-Andre Hamelin is one of the great virtuoso pianists of today, and tosses off everything Scriabin throws at him like it is easy.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #854 - 03/28/25 at 16:40:31
 
One of my desert island discs:



On CD.

There are a lot of (interesting) ways to interpret what a lot of people think is the cornerstone of Western Art Music. I'd venture The Well Tempered Clavier is perhaps more open to interpretation than any other piece I know. Fredrich Gulda does two things, first is that while he plays on a modern concert grand piano, he plays the different preludes and fugues in the style of one of the 3 keyboard instruments Bach knew: the harpsichord, clavier and pipe organ.

And he doubles down on the mathematical elegance of the composition. I'd call this interpretation "Bach, all Bach and nothing but Bach." The only "emotion" in this performance in the emotion Bach wrote into the perfection of the notes, and it is magnificent.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #855 - 03/29/25 at 15:24:02
 
I listen to a lot of Sibelius, and as a complete cycle of symphonies 1 thru 7 Paavo Berglund's recordings with the Bournmouth Symphony is one of the best I know.



DSD rip from SACD

I was enjoying "Sibelius' Eroica," his Symphony no. 5.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #856 - 03/30/25 at 15:17:20
 
Orlande de Lassus aka Roland de Lassus was one of the absolute high water marks of Renaissance polyphonic choral writing. And this recording of his Cantiones Sacrae by Philippe Herreweghe and the Collegium Vocale Gent is one of the absolute high water marks Renaissance polyphonic singing. The sound and the singing is just magical.



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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #857 - 03/30/25 at 17:23:35
 
At about the same time Leonard Bernstein was making his indispensable recordings of the Haydn Masses in New York George Guest was recording them at Saint John's College Cambridge. Where Lenny's recordings were dramatic and passionate, Guest leaned more towards classical elegance and beauty. And he was ably abetted by the acoustics of St. John's and Argo/Decca's engineering. Like everything else in the Guest/Argo box.



On CD.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #858 - 03/31/25 at 15:33:05
 
Richard Strauss' ethereal Metamorphosen for 23 solo strings.



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Herbert Blomstedt conducts Strauss' old orchestra, the Dresden Staatskapelle in a luxurious reading.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #859 - 03/31/25 at 22:47:17
 
Roberto Szidon burst on the scene and then disappeared at about the same time and circumstances as baseball fans of a certain age may remember Mark "the Bird" Fidrych. He didn't record much, but his performance of Liszt's Hungarian Rhapsodies are in my Hall of Fame. They have all the virtuosic dexterity one could ask for and are, if not exactly profound, at least profoundly musical, which is not how these Mt. Everests of technical show-offsmanship typically are presented.



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They are part of DGs Liszt Collection, which is a great way to get a lot of great Liszt.
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Tone-Deaf
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #860 - 04/01/25 at 04:43:08
 
I am finishing up my brief revisit to the Baroque period with J.S. Bach's "Brandenburg Concertos" performed by The English Concert/Trevor Pinnock:



While I have listened to baroque music before, this may be the most concentrated focus I've given to different composers from this era, where (at least for me) the "family resemblance" of baroque music by different composers seems clearer to me.  It has also been interesting to listen to this music (where the structure and tonal "center" of the music seem well-defined), after listening to some of Shoenberg's atonal music using the 12-tone composition techniques.  

I think I may give another listen to Schoenberg now, having "reset" my ears to strongly tonal music, to see if it helps me to begin to understand what the 12-tone system is about (along with looking at some YouTube videos that discuss 12-tone music and its history).  
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #861 - 04/01/25 at 15:37:40
 
Quote:
Posted by: Tone-Deaf      Posted on: Yesterday at 20:43:08

...I think I may give another listen to Schoenberg now, having "reset" my ears to strongly tonal music, to see if it helps me to begin to understand what the 12-tone system is about (along with looking at some YouTube videos that discuss 12-tone music and its history)...


Good luck with that. Considering your success with the Bartok string quartets you might consider Schoenberg's 4 string quartets and a good starting place. The first quartet is technically tonal, written in d minor, but it is hard to tell because it sounds pretty atonal/expressionistic to me. Kinda like Bartok with a German accent.  It is also like 45 minutes long so it is a lot to digest. The second is probably my favorite, very expressionistic (but not 12 tone) with a soprano soloist. The third is one of his first true 12 tone compositions and the fourth is 12 tone as well.

These are not my favorite thing on the menu but I will order them from time to time. I have a few different recordings, but generally I reach for the young Juilliard Quartet from their mono box.



On CD.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #862 - 04/01/25 at 20:17:41
 
When I comes to the Second Viennese School I prefer the students to the teacher. I prefer the music of Alban Berg and Anton Webern to Schoenberg. And the LaSalle Quartet box is a great way to get all of their quartets, plus those of Alexander Zemlinsky.



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The LaSalle Quartet takes a bit of the edge off the music compared to the Juilliard.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #863 - 04/03/25 at 02:16:18
 
Regardless of the craziness in my life and/or the outside world I can always count on Vaughan Williams 3rd Symphony, the Pastoral, to lower my blood pressure 10-15 points.



On CD.

No one does it better than Andre Previn and the London Symphony.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #864 - 04/03/25 at 14:57:10
 
I am a huge fan of both Leonard Bernstein and Tchaikovsky's 5th Symphony. So I was first in line to get Bernstein's digital Tchaik 5 when it came out 30something years ago. I listened to it a couple of times and then put it away because, as I remember, it just sounded bad. So imagine my surprise when I spun the disc up decades later on my current system and found it actually sounds pretty good. It isn't going to be a demo disc but now I can hear a bunch of the details of the performance that I couldn't (or didn't) back in the 90's. And it is quite a performance: my dad liked to say Tchaikovsky's 5th was a 45 minute finale, and no one whips up a finale like Lenny.



On CD.
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Rap
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #865 - 04/03/25 at 16:30:12
 
Think me and Sting can recommend my brother in-laws recordings of the Goldberg variations  :D



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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #866 - 04/03/25 at 19:10:05
 
Sting and my friend from the University of Chicago Norman look so much alike. . . .

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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #867 - 04/04/25 at 01:42:42
 
Have often wondered about that similarity too....
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Lon
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #868 - 04/04/25 at 03:23:37
 
HA.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #869 - 04/04/25 at 15:46:01
 
Beethoven's Missa Solemnis is one of my desert island compositions, and Otto Klemperer's recording from the 60s is considered one of the classic recordings. But I never got the performance until now. I don't know if I just needed to hear it one more time, or because my system is sounding so good or something else but it finally clicked, and it is truly great.



On CD.

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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #870 - 04/04/25 at 22:26:33
 
The German Austrian Musical Criticism Complex, GAMCCtm, would have you believe composers like Chabrier and Roussel are too much fun to be taken seriously. And they are half right: they are a lot of fun. But they absolutely should be taken seriously as well, on their own terms. As a contrast, not a competitor to Brahms.



On CD.

Paul Paray and the Detroit Symphony are hard to beat in this music, as is the Mercury Living Presence sound.
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #871 - 04/05/25 at 15:16:50
 
Bach wrote two Passions which, for him, were essentially operas. The Saint Matthew Passion is the best know and frequently mentioned in conversations about the "greatest" work ever written. But I like his other one, the Saint John, better. It is shorter and a bit more dramatic. Esp. the way Eugen Jochum plays it in his very much not historically informed recording from the mid-60s.



On CD

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Geno
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #872 - 04/06/25 at 14:39:27
 

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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #873 - 04/06/25 at 16:20:06
 
That Richter LP is very interesting Geno. I don't own it but I've seen around, a lot. And I never suspected it was recorded on 35mm film, apparently by the Mercury crew. I bet it sounds really good.

I do have the Byron Janis Liszt Piano Concertos that were recorded by Mercury on 35mm film, in Moscow. And it is great, both sound-wise and preformance-wise.



On CD.


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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #874 - 04/07/25 at 00:04:25
 
Listened to some more Schoenberg 12-tone compositions: "Accompaniment to a Film Scene" (through it was not used for a film), and "Variations for Orchestra" , performed by the BBC Symphony Orchestra conducted by Peirre Boulez.



I have not made friends with Schoenberg's music yet (as CAJames warned me might occur!).  I watched some YouTube videos about 12-tone music and found it interesting (though I know little about music theory).  I can kind of see the relationship between math and music in the concept, where the 12-Tone technique does seem to be designed to help a composer avoid "drifting" into tonal music, and as an intellectual exercise it seems interesting.  However, that knowledge did not help me to connect with this music.

I am reminded of Geno's observation that Bartok does not work for him, though he has given it several chances.  I think I am going to follow my suggestion to him, that if the music does not connect with you then it may not be worth too much of your time (at least for the immediate future).  This is (of course) a personal view, and others may well have an appreciation of the music that I do not have (at least as yet).  

I am also thinking about Geno's comment, that there is plenty of music that I initially did not like, and then over time learned to love - I may come to a different view if I revisit Schoenberg in the future.  
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #875 - 04/07/25 at 01:38:41
 
I don't blame you at all for taking a break from Schoenberg, at least 12-tone Schoenberg. But, before you do I encourage you to give a listen to his 5 Pieces for Orchestra, Op. 16 which I assume is in the box. They are not 12-tone compositions, but they are fully atonal and caused quite a sensation when they were first performed.

I have pimped this disc before, it is my goto for this music, but I'm sure Boulez does it very well too. I like them much more than any of Schoenberg's actual 12-tone music.



On CD.

Looking back over the last century plus of music history I think it is fair to say the 5 Pieces have a much more lasting influence than 12-tone music, which was pretty much a dead end.

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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #876 - 04/07/25 at 05:01:36
 
Anyone able to endure Schoenberg and like composers has something I will never have. Is it mental acuity?  Is it musical maturity?  Is it grit?  Whatever it is, I don't get it.  I feel depressed, irritated, dispirited, empty, oppressed (as by evil), angry, upset, and unsettled when I listen to this stuff.  I sense rebellion and hate toward what is good and beautiful in this stuff.  I can't even bring myself to call it music.

Give me Bach, Handel, Corelli, Haydn, Schubert, Beethoven, the Schumanns, the Mendelssohns, Chopin, Tchaikovsky, and many others from this 250 year stretch.  I want to experience beauty, joy, goodness, peace, unity, harmony, order, and love when I listen to music.  There is some twentieth century music that meets these standards but the options are far more limited.

That's where I am, but of course, to each his own!  Happy listening!



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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #877 - 04/07/25 at 18:25:33
 
How about 20th century music that sounds like it could have been written 500 years ago.



On CD.

The All Night Vigil aka Vespers is Rachmaninoff's homage to the centuries old tradition of Russian Orthodox church music. And it is some of the most beautiful music I know. I have several recordings, most from Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union but the Robert Shaw Singers, and Telarc's engineers, are as good as any and better than most.
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #878 - 04/07/25 at 22:31:55
 
Couldn't agree with you more, CAJames.  
One of many Rachmaninoff works I marvel at.  
Shaw and Telarc were a great team!
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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #879 - 04/08/25 at 18:36:38
 
Music that is actually 500 years old: Lagrime di San Pietro (Tears of St. Peter) by Orlande de Lassus. If Schoenberg and his ilk were post-tonal than Lassus was pre-tonal, or maybe super-tonal. He wrote in the "church modes" which correspond to 8 consecutive white keys on the modern keyboard (although tuned somewhat differently). And when you pick a mode you are limited to those 8 notes and no others. Which might sound boring, but not the way Lassus mixes and matches the voices in these 21 madrigals and motets.



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CAJames
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #880 - 04/09/25 at 02:44:58
 
Rudolf Serkin was one of the great pianists of the 20th century, and listening to his recording of Beethoven's towering Hammerklavier Sonata will show why. From the virtuoso fireworks of the opening movement to the transcendent stillness of the Adagio to the clarity of the final finger crushing fugue the thing that impresses most is not his flawless technique, but rather his flawless musical taste and intelligence.



On CD from the Beethoven Sonatas Box.

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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #881 - 04/09/25 at 16:49:02
 
Schoenberg tried to save music by inventing a whole new way of thinking about it: liberating the dissonance with the 12-tone technique. And while it is a (potentially) interesting intellectual exercise, pretty much no one wants to hear the finished product. What actually saved music was composers like Prokofiev who mixed modern liberated dissonance with traditional tonal music to get the best of both worlds. YMMV. Both the modern and traditional are very much on display in the three so called War Sonatas written during WWII.



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Steven Osborne sails through the fiendishly difficult notes to give us all the music lurking underneath.
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #882 - 04/10/25 at 15:23:03
 
What did Beethoven do after writing his Appassionata Sonata, the biggest, loudest most elaborate piano piece ever written up to that time? First he took a few years off, and then he wrote an absolute jewel, the Opus 78 Sonata in F#. I'd say it resides somewhere between unknown and underappreciated and AFAIK no one has recorded it outside of a complete survey of the 32 sonatas. But no less an authority than Beethoven himself singled it out as one of this favorites and it is about 9 minutes of pure bliss. Esp. the way Jeno Jando plays it.



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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #883 - 04/11/25 at 04:20:23
 
Hi, James.  Thanks for your general comments on atonal music, and the suggestion of Schoenberg's "Five Pieces for Orchestra" (it is in the box set I have).  I did like it better than the "12-tone" compositions I listened to.  But for me there is a sort of "sameness" of the feeling of tension that all of these compositions give me, but ultimately the music does not seem to go anywhere.  Maybe I just need some tonality in the music to feel like the music is leading someplace.  

What I am taking away from this is that, for me, the 12-tone music is not great to listen to.  Perhaps as part of "music history" and/or "music theory" it was a necessary step that helped integrate more dissonance into music theory, but is perhaps not a great approach to music composition when standing alone.

Hi Doug.  I do spend time with some music that does not seem "beautiful" on first listen, because there has been a lot of music I initially disliked, but later grew to love.  That experience (and not musical knowledge or smarts) has made me more patient in sticking with such music for a while.  But I need to find at least something of interest in the music to keep going.  I understand your response to Schoenberg, as I have not found enough in it for me to continue exploring it for now.  
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #884 - 04/11/25 at 21:58:52
 
Ravel's Daphins et Chloe was written about the same time as Stravinsky's Rite of Spring and Schoenberg's 5 pieces. It strikes me as both very modern and very classical, and I like much more than either of the admitted much more "revolutionary" works. It is also one of the great virtuoso showpieces for orchestra. The Czech Philharmonic play the 2 Daphnis and Chloe Suites with both panache and Bohemian charm.



On CD

From the Libor Pesek Gold Collection.
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #885 - 04/12/25 at 03:29:50
 
It's easy to see (and hear) why the Appassionata is one of the most popular pieces in the classical repertoire. It is prime middle period Beethoven at his heroic best. Pretty much everyone records it, and it seems like as long as you have the chops to play it you can't make a bad recording. At least I've never heard one. But no one plays it like Sviatoslav Richter in this live performance from 1960.



On CD

From the Richter Beethoven box on Profil

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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #886 - 04/12/25 at 22:24:39
 
Brahms had what today we'd call Beethoven Issues. He actually had a lot of issues, but this is the one that matters here. He was called "the next Beethoven" by no less than Robert Schumann when he was just starting out, and was perhaps uniquely qualified to understand just exactly how hard it would be to live up to than billing. The complex manifest itself in many ways, but the biggest was that he was afraid to write his first symphony, and spent many years writing "symphonic" music for anything but a symphony for orchestra. One of his earliest outlets was the piano sonata, of which he wrote three, and each more elaborately symphonic than the one before. By the time he got to his Third Sonata you can almost hear the orchestra playing the music, although it is a perfectly excellent piano piece in its own right.



On CD.

Julius Katchen was one of several mid-century American pianists who had their lives and/or careers cut tragically short. But he remains one of the great Brahms pianists to ever make a recording and his collection of solo piano pieces has been a classic since it was released.

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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #887 - 04/15/25 at 16:46:29
 
Lassus: Lamentations of Jeremiah. I'm not sure what exactly it is about, but it is beautiful.



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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #888 - Yesterday at 15:21:06
 
What to make of Bach's Art of the Fugue, the piece on which he was working when he died? Well, I find it, in a word (or two), kinda boring. YMMV. The Well Tempered Clavier is a desert island piece for me, AotF is different. It seems more like an academic exercise then something for serious listening. But it does make nice background music.



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Certainly Angela Hewitt sounds and plays beautifully, like she does with pretty much everything.
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Re: Classical Music Thread
Reply #889 - Yesterday at 21:25:32
 
In most places the white keys on the keyboard are denoted by the letters A thru G. Except in Germany where B is a black key: the rest of the world's B-flat. The story behind this is somewhat technical and very German, but it boils down to one interval, F-B being dissonant. The interval is known as a tritone, for three whole steps, and because of the dissonance is sometimes called "the devil's interval." The Germans didn't want the devil in their music so they changed the note, from B-natural to B-flat. And when they needed B-natural they called it H. At least this is story I was told.

This is a long, likely confusing, introduction to one of Sibelius' least known, but one of my personal favorite symphonies: No. 4. And it is based on the devil's interval, the tritone. But you'd need either an exceptional ear or inside information to know that by listening, because it just sounds unusually dark and brooding, even for Sibelius.



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Who better than the Germans Kurt Sanderling and the Berlin Symphony to squeeze all the dark and brooding out of the piece.
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