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Question on 12AX7 matched sections. (Read 154 times)
Dominick
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Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
06/24/24 at 00:39:24
 
So it’s time to replace the old tubes that came with my white top ZP3.  I noticed that I’m getting a channel imbalance with lower volume coming out of the right channel as well as an echoing sound.  Since I don’t know the condition of the tubes that the amp came with, I decided to put in a new Stock Decware 5U4G rectifier, a NOS Westinghouse OA3, 2 used Tungsol 12AX7’s, and a used 12AU7.   I’m still getting the channel imbalance, so now I’ve decided to buy 3 new tubes for the first 3 positions.

For the 12AU7… I just ordered a GE12AU7 from Upscale audio (Kevin’s Stash) that I’m very familiar with.  I ran this tube in my old ZSTAGE, and it was dead silent with no microphonics and great detail.   

So now we come to the 12AX7.  I’m leaning toward the GE JG triple mica black plates.  I know with the first position, it’s important to have tightly matched triode sections.

So my question is….if both triode sections are not perfectly matched…how far off can they be before it causes an issue.  This is my first go round with this tube and running th ZP3, so any advice and insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable, White top ZP3, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Lon
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Re: Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
Reply #1 - 06/24/24 at 01:01:23
 
Dom,
If you've swapped tubes and you still have a channel imbalance. . . it's quite possible the imbalance is not from the tubes. . . .(?)
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HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Dominick
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Still like that old
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Re: Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
Reply #2 - 06/24/24 at 02:01:54
 
Lon,

The rectifier is brand new, and the VR tube is the one you gave me.  I don’t know the history of the two 12AX7’s, and the 5814 is also the tube you gave me.  

Yes…I do suspect it could be the ZP3 itself…but before I send it in…I figured it’s worth a shot to just replace the tubes first.  

We both know…if I send the unit in…I’ll be hell bent on doing all the upgrades….which is what I really didn’t want to do right now.  Sort of a conundrum.  

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable, White top ZP3, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 23997
Re: Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
Reply #3 - 06/24/24 at 03:48:57
 
Understood. You should examine all the hardware--the connections from sources and to speakers, even the cabling. That's a good way to eliminate or discover an issue.
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HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Dominick
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Still like that old
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Posts: 1237
Re: Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
Reply #4 - 06/24/24 at 13:07:43
 
Thanks.  I’m going to check it out further tonight after work. I already checked the speaker connections, and when I switch to digital everything sounds fine.  The cabling for the ZP3 was the same cables I was using when I ran the Rega Fono.  I didn’t sell the Rega unit yet, so I’m going to plug it back in just to try to isolate the problem.  If the new tubes aren’t the cause, then it looks like I’m going to have to place a call into Steve.  I guess I may as well call Sarah get a quote on the full upgrades and the Anniversay mods.   Depending on the cost…maybe I’ll just do the Anniversay Mods and keep the stock caps.

While I know it’s nice to have all of your components with the same brand of caps for the internals….maybe running vinyl and a bit of variety keeping the stock caps is a good thing.  Any thoughts?

Dom
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable, White top ZP3, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Lon
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"Love without
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Posts: 23997
Re: Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
Reply #5 - 06/24/24 at 14:58:03
 
Dom, I think that if you decide to do the Anniversary Mods doing so with the stock caps is an okay idea. I have one ZROCK2 with the stock caps, and not even any mods other than the voltage regulation mod, and it sounds very good.

It's possible there is a connection problem within if it's not a connection problem outside. Should be something simple causing that imbalance--does not seem to be a tube issue to me, but I'm diagnosing from miles away and far from an expert.
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HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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Dominick
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Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 1237
Re: Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
Reply #6 - 06/24/24 at 16:26:55
 
Yeah It’s probably an in internal issue.  With my unit sitting for a good amount of time before I bought it, maybe running it regularly like I have been caused the issue.  I’m just guesstimating at this point though.  I sometimes wonder if by not having all the internals the same will compromise some synergy since these amps are so revealing.  

I have a 1PM call tomorrow with Steve, and Veronica is going to send me over a breakdown of all the upgrades and warranty transfer.  I’ll keep you posted.
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable, White top ZP3, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Dominick
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Still like that old
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Posts: 1237
Re: Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
Reply #7 - 06/26/24 at 12:43:14
 
I had a great conversation with STEVE yesterday. He feels that the issue I am having is tube related.  After some thought I felt it was best to send the unit in for a warranty transfer and new tube compliment. The previous owner had swapped out bases so we don’t know the serial number of the unit nor do we know what kind of internals there are.  Once Steve gets a hold of the unit and opens it up, we will have another conversation.

Steve had indicated that in his reference system he is still running the stock ZP3 with no mods. STEVE also felt that if I did mods on my unit I might not be able to appreciate them due to my turntable being a weaker link in the signal chain. With me having just a modest turntable… I feel that at this point it’s best to leave the unit stock until I decide to upgrade my table and cartridge….unless I get an itchy trigger finger and make a last minute decision to do some upgrades.  So the unit will get packed up today and get shipped out.  Luckily I have not sold my Rega phono preamp yet… So I can still enjoy vinyl in the interim.  
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Rasp. Pi 4 [Roon], Schiit Bifrost True Multibit DAC, ZBIT, ZROCK2, My Audio Cables Ultra Silver+, ZSB, CSP2+ 25th, DAG Cables, DHC1, Torii MKIV 25th /2 White Zen SE84C+ 25th mono’s, Rega P2 Turntable, White top ZP3, Velodyne Dual Firing Sub, ERR’s [Bubbinga Wood]
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Lon
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"Love without
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Re: Question on 12AX7 matched sections.
Reply #8 - 06/26/24 at 13:19:21
 
Sounds like a good plan.
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HR-1,ZBIT,ZROCK2,SEWE300B,CSP3-25mod; Rega RP3 all GrooveTracer mods;PSAudio:PST+DSD, DAC Mk II, P15,NPC,PowerBases,AC-12 pwr cbls, Reference spkrcbls; Mapleshade SamsonV3; VooDoo:Cremona+Amati interconnects, IsoPods; headphones: Sennheiser HD800S,ZMF Ori,Oppo PM1
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