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08/17/24 at 17:14:53 




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Speaker Cables (Read 201 times)
S of T
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Posts: 53
Speaker Cables
Yesterday at 17:15:55
 
What are you using? Besides looking at members signatures.

My staple digital cable is Kimber Illuminations D-60 and staple RCA IC Kimber KS1030. Great transparent neutrality with musicality.

I've also owned digital from Snake River Audio Boomslang coax and Cotton Mouth IC. The magnetic High Fidelity digital coax too. Kimber KCAG/now in my other Rig for many years.

Speaker Cables over time:

Kimber 8TC
Kimber KS3033
Kimber KS3035
Zen Styx
Kimber KS6063
Anticables
Fidelium Cables / Silversmith Audio
UP-OCCC DIY
UP-OCCCopper DIY with 6N Silver (see signature - hybrid of Kimber KS6063/KS6065 solid core)

Combination of 24awg solid core and 19awg stranded per Kimber's formula; something more real musically about these gauges. My ZDSD and ZMA get to really show what they can do (D-60, KS1030 & current DIY).


Now, contemplating AUDIENCE FRONT ROW Speaker Cables. I see in the multiple reviews another layer of the onion gone.........especially when I'm a timbral stickler.
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SonyTPort
Illuminations D60
ShunyataZ-AlphaDigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
KimberKS1030 IC
XLOProPcord
DecwareZMA/25thMods
DIYKimber6063&6065/SCables
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
KimberPK10Palladian from wall
to PSAudioP3
ZDSD&ZMA HCOut
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Donnie
Seasoned Member
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Why does it hurt
when I pee?

Posts: 2251
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #1 - Yesterday at 20:39:19
 
I've been kicking around either getting or making some new speaker cables.

But right now I am using some Mapleshade Clearview Golden Helix. I've had them for years and have no complaint at all about them.

Typical speaker wire "magic" on them, special winding, super thin insulation, special power pulses have been shot through them. Blah, blah, blah. They sounded different than what I was using before, maybe better, maybe.
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Owner of the infamous RED TORII and Dan the Redheaded Amp
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S of T
Senior Member
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Posts: 53
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #2 - Yesterday at 20:50:38
 
Donnie, I love you man. Whatever that spat when you were curator for a spell>? People are nuts, right?

Anyway, Neil Gadar and such/as Neil  .......it's there ...glad I can hear it.
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SonyTPort
Illuminations D60
ShunyataZ-AlphaDigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
KimberKS1030 IC
XLOProPcord
DecwareZMA/25thMods
DIYKimber6063&6065/SCables
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
KimberPK10Palladian from wall
to PSAudioP3
ZDSD&ZMA HCOut
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S of T
Senior Member
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Posts: 53
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #3 - Yesterday at 21:40:53
 
Okay.  I've had Goertz too ( been so long I forgot). You failed reading my list of past tense. You have no reference to the best in resolution with Decware. It is not cheap.....but my ZMA and subsequent not over Rought...is not either.  

My point being I've gone from the basics you have mentioned to full scale to DIY.....now to reality from the ZMA......back to true hi-end cables.

If you cannot hear it? Enjoy what you do.......you still have Decware as a nucleus.

Stone of Tone

Anyone, want to have a real convo on Hi-End Speaker Cables?
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SonyTPort
Illuminations D60
ShunyataZ-AlphaDigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
KimberKS1030 IC
XLOProPcord
DecwareZMA/25thMods
DIYKimber6063&6065/SCables
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
KimberPK10Palladian from wall
to PSAudioP3
ZDSD&ZMA HCOut
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will
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 3018
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #4 - Yesterday at 21:54:57
 
I had tried quite a few well liked value cables. Some that did not stick long were Zu Mission, an early version of Reality cables, some earlier Anti-cables, and a few more I can't recall... And ones that stayed in a while, a DIY design using ethernet wires, Decware Styx, and Morrow's second to the top model. Then I fell into a really nice price on some used Synergistic Research Copper Elements with their special ground tech and sound tuning "bullets." The bullets were pretty powerful, each one giving the wires different feels, from more open and clear to more warm/bassy. They were the most revealing cables I had tried in frequencies and speed, with the cleanest bullets, very good at fine information and space. But not quite right for me, I could not liven up the bass, being a little soft and lean for my setup.

About then, I stumbled into the NOS WE tinned copper wire trend, and liked things I heard with one 16 gauge wire... lively, textured and fun in the mids, while not being so flavored as to sound too fake to me. Trouble was, that little wire could not give me the bass I needed. So I tried two together, and then three. Three 16s brought the bass into the mix pretty well, but 2 and 3 wires together made the mids progressively hard, making the initial mid magic from a single wire too concentrated and dense.

So liking one WE, I took a cue from the SR Elements, and decided to mix wires with the sonic character of each in mind, trying for a really good sonic blend I thought the mix might give. For size, like finding the WE wires too small/lean, I had found big wires like Decware Styx and some others too big, making the mids a little too dense and hard, and the bass too big and dominant. The happy medium here, between the 8 gauge wires and 16, that was quite a spread... I decided to start with 13-12 gauge...1 - WE 16, 1 - "polished" 20 gauge soft annealed pure silver wire in over-sized teflon tube, and I think an 18 gauge (maybe 16?) soft annealed pure copper in oversized teflon, also smoothed and polished with fine steel wool.

As luck would have it, this was quite good here, so I started playing with the number of wire crossings to tighten/clean up the sound by sound....not really twists, as my fav, if I am recalling correctly, had wire crosses something like every 10-12". Once I found the geometry I liked best, I tried some odd wires in teflon tube, and I ended up with a subtle improvement in the finest stuff...I am thinking it might be a 28 gauge titanium plated copper wire...

In the system at the time these cables were overall notably better than the SR Research, quite close in fine detail and space revelation, and with good spectral and speed balances from bass to highs. Sorry I am vague about the exact wire and geometry, but from looking at emails, this was about 9 years ago, bringing memory into question, and the orders are so old, the links to exactly what they were are not working...

Interestingly to me... though I have had UPOCC silver and copper wires, and some Duelund interpretations of WE wire for years, these are so good here, I have never felt compelled to take the time to make an upgraded version.
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All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/ZR2/CSP3>LaoChen 300B/845>Omega SAHOMs/AudioSmile Tweeters,SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs and DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker>SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet +
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S of T
Senior Member
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Posts: 53
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #5 - Yesterday at 22:14:08
 
Thanks for proving my argument Will. Audience Front Row....less silver/ ... .
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SonyTPort
Illuminations D60
ShunyataZ-AlphaDigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
KimberKS1030 IC
XLOProPcord
DecwareZMA/25thMods
DIYKimber6063&6065/SCables
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
KimberPK10Palladian from wall
to PSAudioP3
ZDSD&ZMA HCOut
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will
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 3018
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #6 - Today at 01:55:39
 
I started making cables because I could not get what I wanted easily buying them without going sort of stratospheric price wise (to me like these Audience cables). And getting really good results that I could tune to my preferences with good materials, designs, and iterations, I never looked back. To me, my cables beat the few high dollar references I had tried, but the main reference for me, has been, do they make it sound like real music across recordings without noticing the cables? Then my bud who has heard most of the greats, testing my ICs in his reference systems, said my ICs are near as good as they get. I trust his perception and discernment more than anyone else I know, so this was encouraging to me, that my way of evaluating was working.

As to more or less of anything, something I think I have learned is that everything matters lots at this level, wire sizes, metal types, draws, purities, dielectric, stranded or solid, geometry, ends, damping, cryo or not, magic sauces, solder....... So I can't really say if all OCC copper is "better," especially since I tend to like some silver in my power, USB, speaker, and ICs, especially UPOCC in the latter. And the silver used way matters. For example, my ICs at this point use careful blends of UPOCC gold/silver, silver, and copper, and if I trade VHAudio UPOCC silver in cotton, for Neotech UPOCC silver in loose teflon, that changes the whole cable sound... or change the gauge a little of any of these wires with the same wire... notable change in sound. Loving these cables, still I can't say this is the "best" route, since the cable sound is the sum of so many influences and how they work with one another.

Supporting this idea, I don't doubt these Audience cables sound as amazing as folks say. I just can't imagine paying that much for a cable when what I have is so satisfying that I can't hear flaws. But as importantly, what led me here, I got tired of sending higher dollar things back because they did not quite suit me, again, the balance of things in good cables as important as anything, and that complex of balances effecting how they fit in a given system and room. But that is me!
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All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/ZR2/CSP3>LaoChen 300B/845>Omega SAHOMs/AudioSmile Tweeters,SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs and DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker>SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet +
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S of T
Senior Member
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Posts: 53
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #7 - Today at 04:56:33
 
Well said Will. Before writing this post I searched -speaker cables  - and read your recent posts. Always informative. For almost three years now I've had my current DIY speaker cables. I could happily live with.

However, I'm curious about these Front Row's. I'll have them in next month from the Cableco. If I decide to buy/I'll order a just short of 6ft pair drop shipped direct. 11.5% discount......yes still expensive. But I don't miss the 6K I have with upgrades in my ZMA. I won't miss these funds if they are what I want/hear too.
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SonyTPort
Illuminations D60
ShunyataZ-AlphaDigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
KimberKS1030 IC
XLOProPcord
DecwareZMA/25thMods
DIYKimber6063&6065/SCables
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
KimberPK10Palladian from wall
to PSAudioP3
ZDSD&ZMA HCOut
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will
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 3018
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #8 - Today at 13:49:08
 
Hey Stone, I get it.

If something works really well to improve and enhance all the best qualities of all else...That can be sort of priceless. Good luck in the quest, and I hope more come in on this thread!
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All Modified: PSA-P5>DIY Strip/Shunyata Defender>RevolutionMacMini/Amarra-KTE Singxer/Gustardx20pro/ZBIT/ZR2/CSP3>LaoChen 300B/845>Omega SAHOMs/AudioSmile Tweeters,SVS Micro3000>Pi PCs and DIY PCs, ICs, USB, I2S, Speaker>SR and aluminum w ball bearing feet +
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S of T
Senior Member
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Posts: 53
Re: Speaker Cables
Reply #9 - Today at 17:11:08
 
Will you bet.
I'm 12awg to each speaker post with 9awg aggregate to each speaker with solid core and stranded.
According to my trusty Wirebarn combination calculator:

24awg 6N silver solid core x 2 ConneX (Parts Connexion) PTFE
24awg UP-OCCC x 3 Neotech (Sonic Craft)
19awg Kimber Wire TCSS Hyper-Pure Copper, VariStrand, *PTFE Dielectric x 3 (Parts Connexion)

.............very pleased....love what I created and I might miss the silver in it with the Front Rows....but I had all copper in my Kimber KS6063's.


I tried just all solid core....did not fly....larger aggregate adding more 24awg Neotech UP-OCCC...however, settled on the above magic.

And yes this is the one variable I want to work with further (speaker cables). Very pleased with the rest of my Systems simplicity and musicality reaching the ZMA for RedBook.
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SonyTPort
Illuminations D60
ShunyataZ-AlphaDigPcord
Decware ZDSD DAC
KimberKS1030 IC
XLOProPcord
DecwareZMA/25thMods
DIYKimber6063&6065/SCables
Acoustic Zen Adagio/Modified
KimberPK10Palladian from wall
to PSAudioP3
ZDSD&ZMA HCOut
  IP Logged
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