The break-in is going very slowly. It sounded amazing right out of the gate and then the ups and downs began. Some days it sounds better than anything I’ve ever heard and some days sounds like absolute dog s**t.
I made a lot of changes adding caps, fuse, and tube all at once. I have a Black Treasure 274b arriving today after reading Lon’s glowing reviews but I’m hesitant to add another piece into the break in puzzle until this thing settles down. I’m maybe 50 hours in. Long way to go.

Hi Geno. No, my CXN is completely stock. I’ve always loved that streamer but felt like there could be something more. The CXN has such tight and punchy low end that I didn’t get when adding some other DACs. The MP is like the CXN on the lows and low mids but turned up a notch, but then a wider, deeper sound stage and tighter, more focused placement of instruments. The highs aren’t quite as bright as some other DACs but definitely really nice and silky.

I was listening to Iron and Wine’s Walking Far From Home last night and at 3:10 when the low keyboard registers kicked in it was like an ethereal punch to the gut that moved my whole body. Amazing. Though we’ll see where things settle out after three or four hundred hours.

I need to add those rear firing tweeters back in once things settle down. They might be a good fit now.

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Yes! I had exactly the same experience when I upgraded my digital. Some of my favorite recordings are air-checks (not even studio recordings) from the 30s, 40s and early 50s, and they sounded pretty ruff on what was a pretty high end CD/SACD player. But with better digital I feel like I'm getting more music and less other stuff and the old recordings are back in heavy rotation.

Exciting Gilf. Thanks for your thoughts and comparisons.

I have been pretty lucky landing on some pretty real sounding DACs that play well across recordings once tuned to the system/room. Especially with a nice range of very transparent gain/sound balancing stages before (all heavily modified for spacious and musical speed and transparency), and tuning them together, they are really useful to help pull in the beauty from the room and to help solve individual recordings imbalances. So I have not played the field much.

But if the DAC is not really nicely tuned itself, good pre stages are not enough for me. I had a Decware ZDSD DAC here for a while and could get pleasing sound on many recordings, but just could not make it work across recordings. I felt sure in the end this was the base circuit design and parts choices, and that it was not solvable for me, so it went back. But I also had a Tranquility DAC as reference then, originally tuned with parts blind tested and in various good systems, and it was really good in most ways, including playing well across recordings here, especially for the money.

It needed a really good clean stream though, but with that the Tranquility was sort of revelatory for me, a design objective to match high quality "analog," its carefully arrived at parts synergy made it pretty easy to tune toward bringing out the very finest detail in space information, and with balances that support most recordings sounding realer. It did take a little work to get the bass fast enough for me, but it was possible, especially with the icing of some careful and narrow EQ pulls in my player software, cleaning up remaining system and room modes enough to sound real.

Then came the Gustard I have used for lots of years now. I did a lot of modification work on it to my tastes, and it came out really good, especially with a Kitsuni Singxer SU-1 converting USB into I2S going into the DAC, and cables and feet arrived at by sound. I think what feeds the digital is super important, cables and power, and my Mini with a super tuned OS was a notably powerful refinement toward smooth resolution that does not mask fine information...resolution and speeds across balances, and the space that allows them. So that is a lot working together toward balances I love in this room. The thought being that, as usual, is all matters, likely especially with the very clean digital formats. And it sounds like your Musical Paradise is really hitting it all for you, especially showing so well after those well loved competitors you tried.

Interesting you got such a nice awakening with the cap shift. Not really surprising I guess, Obligatos good sounding lower cost caps, but not nearly as refined as Jupiter Coppers. And I think you probably did it right, putting the Jupiters in front of the Mundorf Gold/Silver oils? I used Jupiter coppers in my Torii III and IV for coupling caps for quite a while, and interestingly, in my amps, the challenge was a comparatively accented "warmth" and the slightly dark tone contributing to a thickish bass that came along with a seductive smooth resolution everywhere else. Once I finally got into exploring a lot more caps in the amps, experimenting loads with the power supplies as well, I found I could not use the Coppers anymore. Really good sound if that signature is what is needed, but with my "warmish" oriented amps, too much finally for me no matter where I tried them or how I mixed them with other caps. I have not heard the Mundorf Gold/Silver/oils, but they seem to be pretty clean with extra good detail complexity by reputation (I guess too good for some), but it sounds like in the MP design, your change is really bringing out the best of both caps, something I mostly find better here... two caps that synergize so often better than either alone. It sounds like you really hit is first try!

I look forward to further impressions. I like the look of this DAC for nice design, simplicity, and modifiability... and price!

Hey Gilf. I have been wandering through reading about the MP DAC/streamers. I like what I am reading about impressions as well as its simple modular design considerations, adjustability, and for me, perhaps a built in streamer. Thanks again for bringing it to my attention.

Also, thanks for asking how I tighten/speed up bass. Day to day system/room tuning often seems to happen “intuitively,” I think working a whole lot from the vast amount of information non-linear consciousness/perception can take in, all in a single moment. And for me, evaluating this using comparatively very slow “word time,” how we tend to think, articulating new ways of perceiving and describing things, I always seem to learn. Today I realize that bass considerations have been so present, for so long, likely everything I have done includes bass refining decisions… so a big area.

Natural timbre and tonal ranges of bass, made to work best with the right speeds, leading edges, density, textures, decays… I think these are always parts of what I “listen for” as I experience the whole. And always open to finding ways into a more complete musical experience, as the system/room gets more refined and revealing, seems the subtler sounds and balances get easier to notice and discern, individually and as a whole.

I guess for me, each minor modification, cable choice or adjustment, power treatment, foot choice and placement, weight use, tubes, gains, subtle speaker placement tuning and room adjustments… all are “practices” that can help me learn more nuances musical qualities that make it feel real. Luckily, our non-linear consciousness can potentially take in all aspects of interdependent and interactive qualities that make music. But that is a lot to sort through, the whole sound experience way too much to try to linearize into strings of words while trying to understand or explain something. Seems what we perceive, and can learn to discern from a few moments of the music, would take forever to put into words. But gradually learning to bridge these two ways of consciousness effectively, we seem able to better “digest” and "use" all this information. And for me, as the many balances get more refined together, if little things feel a little “off balance,” it always shows more, making it easier to learn from and adjust. Still, it is so amazing, as more and more is musically revealed, no matter how good it gets, I can see no real end in sight as things continue to seem “the best ever” again and again.


Over years, primary for me has been learning to “hear” and help bring out what seems to be the most fragile stuff… open space in relationship with finer detail…showing as air and harmonics…textures, decays… If those are there with complexity, and in relative balance across the spectrum, I think it is likely the speed is there too, offering quick ins and outs of space for sounds to emerge and trail from without smears. In effect, if all is tuned for a more complete musical experience, open space and speed seem to be primary in resolving natural musical complexity. Which leads to thoughts that for tone and timbre to be realistic and complete, all else good, timing and speed across the range is a bottom line because it allows the finest information in space.

Not knowing your system and room, or how far you have treated it all, not sure where to go here, so I guess I will focus on more core experiences.

We know bass is often at least influenced by room modes muddling things up, and muddle, even making the bass sound seem low in the mix when it is perhaps just smeared and lacking articulation, is hard to read. And low muddle darkens and muddles the mid bass and mids, further reducing articulation and complexity from the low bass up, while pushing highs out of balance in the blend.

So I agree, room treatment. But also, if we can't fit in enough (along with other tuning to resolve bass), at least in this room, I find relatively articulate EQ direct on the digital files (in good player software), by sound, can do a lot to help solve remaining issues musically. I guess things like REQ Wizard can be quite useful… and maybe my room did most things pretty well by chance… but I have been reticent to measure, wanting to learn more from practicing perception and discernment. So though I have had mic for years, if I need to get more articulate in what is “off,” I still prefer to just run a strong and narrow amplifying Q slowly through the bass regions, using music that shows bass issues in this room. The bad mode zones make themselves clear this way, and if they show similarly on multiple problem recordings, I experiment with toning those frequency areas down, playing with the q width and depth to reduce the modes in balance with the rest…Also, gradual dumps down nearer the bottom, or relatively subtle shelves below a given frequency can be pretty revelatory and musical here.

Several years back, I finally got a small sub I could adjust pretty articulately from my phone, so from anywhere in the room. Once I find the right phase, crossover frequency, slopes, etc… and the sub also having parametric EQ, I set it to be barely discernible in the blend, and it seems to help mitigate standing waves and improve articulation/impact.

Also I find all cables can matter a lot, ICs, speaker, digital, and power, some cleaner and more articulate, and some softer, fuller, and warmer... generally, faster ones helping with tighter bass. And I find gauge can really matter. Too heavy in my setup leads to bigger fuller bass becoming too strong in the balance, in this room contributing to thickness and muddle. And too light gauge is too thin and empty sounding. Not always the case depending on design and materials, but I generally have found that for power cables, various gauge wires adding up to around 12 gauge, and using faster wires like UPOCC copper, and/or nice silver on copper, tends to give the most neutral and fast sound top to bottom with my setup when the gauge is "right." Also a little variable, but roughly, 13-12, also with fast/resolving wires, has been my fav area for speaker cables, again, liking to make up the conglomerate gauge with multiple varied gauge wires rather than one, and "twisting" them carefully by sound to tighten things up just enough, without getting hard. ICs also… I tend to prefer the neutrality, revelation and speed of lower overall gauge than a lot of commercial ICs these days.

Same with feet... top to bottom listening considerations evaluating them. If they pull the fine stuff and speed top to bottom, opening space without hardness, I tend to “like” them. Not sure what you are using or might need, but adjusted by sound, I find these can be pretty neutral and revealing feet that are low cost and maybe worth experimenting with: https://www.amazon.com/Tertullus-Isolation-Vibration-Stainless-Equipments/dp/B09...

Here I like them best with the interior rubber ring pulled off, and using only one of the adhesive rubber protectors on the bottom or top, leaving the other side metal. I have found ceramic and carbon steel balls that fit them too, each having its own sonic tendencies, and sometimes blends being useful. But the straight up steel balls to me are decent. What I like specifically here clearly might be different in other settings. But if vibration seems a relevant area to try to relatively transparently improve, these are not too costly, and can be pretty adjustable, all these things and whatever they sit on effecting the foot “sound” and potentially helping refine bass.


With your DAC, if you don’t have something to effectively gain tune with, I think a ZBIT might be worth considering, with really good cables, relatively transparently adjusting the whole sound with more or less density, speed/dynamics, weight, clarity.... Once the overall tonal balance is close in the room, gain tuning (to me) is really important for more complete bass tuning, in refining the system/room, and for individual recordings.

It sounds like you are using only tube/cap 1 and 3 in your DAC, using the RCAs out??? I could not find it in discussions, so I asked Garry at MP in an email what the sound changes would be with 4 tubes and caps running balanced out other than sound quality changes from higher voltage output... Anyway, since you like the richness the Jupiter coppers brought, to me, finding them to be inherently a little thick and slow on bottom, if you are wanting to resolve bass more, I would try to musically speed up and clarify them some. As super tweeters increase bass leading edges and textures, the right bypass caps can act similarly.

I use quite a few different caps, but mostly Miflex for coupling and power supply bypassing. I find with my stuff the Copper KPCUs are beautifully rich and complex with spaciousness, and without being excessively warm for the most part. But a little oily on their own... I find them quite harmonically resolving in most areas, but a little slow and soft en masse. Alternately, I find the white Copper KFPMs a little too consolidated, clean and articulate. But used together in a component, I like how they can balance with one another, getting me closer to what I love. And finally, I find for ultimately refining the Miflex more fully, low cost Mallory 150s go really well with them, helping pull finer information, space and speed further with an open but sightly warm and textured feel.

Also a clear player, as I recall, both Jupiter Copper/wax and Miflex copper/oils in particular sound pretty good at first, but I guess take 300 hours or so to get more consistantly settled and refined, and will keep refining for several hundred more.

Considering cap sound, in your experiment, conceptually, a 0.1 Miflex KPCU may have had a few small issues for ultimately improving your sound. To me KPCUs feel overall a little more open and complex than the Jupiter copper, but the two caps may also be a little close sonically in some settings for bypassing efficacy… Both nice caps, but I think they are smoothed/warmed in somewhat similar ways, though one is tuned with wax, and oil the other. I am imagining it is possible that more sonic contrast (within limits) could enhance bypassing improvements.

Also the same bypass cap type/make, depending on value, helps focus and pull more or less of the top frequency range. So I think similar signatures and lack of burnin could contribute to less noticeable improvements, the finest stuff being slow to fully show... but the relatively wide range of a 0.1 bypass on a 2.2, without additional smaller bypasses to help the Miflex be more complete, may not show your DACs potential.

Also I wonder what a 0.022 KPCU would have done, a 0.022 working on a narrower frequency range and probably pulling that range a little better. And more focussed on the highest/finest information compared to a 0.1, that narrower enhancement could possibly complete the sound more clearly.

Finally, I found the overall value of a cap set, within a good neutral window, will increase or reduce sonic intensities from caps. Generally, starting with reasonably good balances, including spacious detail complexity, more value overall with the same high quality caps proportioned to help each other most, can increase everything… at some point going too far. Especially with bypasses working the higher ranges, it can get too clear, too dynamic, too hard from pushing density into excess consolidation. At the same time, I feel like more consolidation of the higher stuff effects bass with less complexity. At some point, increased intensity that is not spacious and complex, the enhancement consolidated too much, it feels like it is darkening and thickening down lower. And bass being a super vulnerable area to overdo and throw off balance in most rooms, I think considering and listening for these things can be a good bass tuning tool.  

So all in all, I am wondering… to pull better speed and detail complexity, supporting leading edges, textures and decays, in the bass and all else, I might try a 0.022 Miflex KFPM on the Jupiters, the cleaner and narrower frequency focus hopefully enhancing the Jupiter qualities with more speed and complex revelation bottom to top. Then I would try a 0.002 Mallory 150 on top of the KFPM, further opening, speeding up and refining the very fine information. They would likely fit in your DAC, and not being too costly, they would at least give another basis of information to explore from… And who knows, they might even be about “right!"

Anyway, hoping these thoughts are useful in some ways, and good luck as you get to know your new "system" you are creating with your new DAC!

I also wanted to share a lengthy forum discussion on the USAudiomart forums about this DAC, its evolution of development, and numerous modification possibilities:
https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=52556

Enjoy your time in the natural world, Will, and safe travels. I’ve been reading “A Walk in the Park” by Kevin Fedarko; with you in spirit.

I followed Will’s suggestion recently and added Miflex KFPM 0.022 and a Mallory 0.0022 bypass caps on the Jupiters. They’ve only had a couple of days of burn in. My initial impression is that I’m pleasantly surprised at how subtle and pleasant the combination is so far. The highs aren’t quite as pronounced as expected. The low mids are slightly smoother (not that any of this was bad before). “Bass” instruments such as kick drum, bass guitar, upright, and cello all seem better aligned, if that makes sense, as if the attack on the skin or string in even more focused in time with the lower register frequencies of the instrument so the full range is hitting my ears better in time. With better transients from these bass instruments I don’t hear any harshness in the cymbals or overall “treble” boost. The former instruments just present themselves in the mix better without a boost across the harsh frequencies.

I haven’t noticed much change in the Jupiter’s anymore. I think they’ve finally settled down. They are slightly dark on their own but that is easily tuned with tube selection. I think if I were to do it over again I would have put Miflex KPCU in there instead of Jupiter but as I type those words understand that I haven’t heard anything less than amazing out of this DAC, even with the stock tubes and caps. It just keeps getting subtly better with these tweaks.