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Adding a powered sub (Read 782 times)
Coyote
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Posts: 185
Adding a powered sub
10/31/24 at 22:00:31
 
Greeting all,

We are updating our home theater system.
It is a smaller room and about the same size as the living room my SE84UFO2 lives. 12x14ft.  

The UFO system is strictly analog.

The HT is getting a new Polk Audio system (4x HTS10+ 1x ES10+ 1x HTS10+ B-Q TK710).

Now, just for fun, I would like to (temporarily) hook the HTS10 powered-sub to my UFO.
(https://www.crutchfield.ca/p_107HTS10/Polk-Audio-HTS-10-Washed-Black-Walnut.html...).

The UFO  is using either a pair of Mission Ditton 66 or a pair Lii F15   Betsy.

The goal is to "relieve" the speakers mentioned above from anything below say 80htz using the Polk sub.

Can this be done? (no pre-amp or anything else).

I read other post about this connecting in parallel, or to the speakers or to the UFO itself.

Can someone explain to me like I am a 5 yr old how to physically connect this? I have two posts on the UFO taken by the speaker's cables and two posts on each speaker also taken by the cables...?

I am thinking maybe ring connectors between the post and the cable plug? Would this influence impedance or such?

Thanking you in advance.

Alain

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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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MikeinMontana
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Posts: 286
Re: Adding a powered sub
Reply #1 - 11/01/24 at 18:13:45
 
Another set of speaker cables (the spade end ones) was added for the high level inputs of our powered sub.
Works perfectly~
I do not own any subs without high level ins and outs.
Edit.
Just looked up that Polk sub. Do you have another sub with high level inputs? (speaker level) I have no idea how to hook up to line level using a Zen amp.
Someone will know here..  
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thumbnailgwgg_002.jpg
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cmdc
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Posts: 60
Re: Adding a powered sub
Reply #2 - 11/02/24 at 14:30:53
 
I run my SE84UFO (now a pair of them, actually) with a Zu powered subwoofer using the same wiring configuration as Mike. I was using the Zu with a pair of Lii F15s before recently upgrading to the HR-2s. The set up works perfectly with both speakers. You should be able to just adjust the crossover frequency and gain on the subwoofer until it suits your taste.

Carroll
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Main:[[TD124 [Koetsu RWS>SME 3009S2Imp][Aidas Durawood>Moerch DP6]][TD124 [Ortofon A90>Kuzma 4Pt9]]>Ned Clayton Cinemag SUT>Dodd Audio Phono Stage>ZRock2][SonicTransporter i7>Mytek Brooklyn Bridge]>ZSB>ZMA>[Zu Druid Mk V][Caintuck Lii 15 OBs/Bass Baffle]
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LiquidBlue
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Posts: 137
Re: Adding a powered sub
Reply #3 - 11/02/24 at 22:57:43
 
I wire my REL similarly to Mike and Carroll, using the high level connections. I also need to use a jumper between the negative posts to alleviate hum from the sub, but it works and blends seamlessly. However, I believe your sub only has RCA connections, so you’d likely need a source or preamp with subwoofer out connections to hook this up in your system.
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Mofi Ultradeck w/ Hana ML>Sutherland Insight>Eversolo DMP-A6>CSP3-A>SE84UFO25>Omega Super Alnico Monitors>REL T7i
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Coyote
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Posts: 185
Re: Adding a powered sub
Reply #4 - 11/05/24 at 01:27:57
 
Hello,

Mike, thank you for the information and the pic, I see how you connected this. I will have to look-up the high level inputs? (speaker level) "thingy"
No Idea. Smiley

Caroll, I can only dream of a Zu powered subwoofer! whoaaaa.

Liquid Blue, good suggestion with the jumper between the negative posts to alleviate hum from the sub. The REL is very nice.
I really have to  look up what is that high level connections you guys are talking about. I thought having its own power-amp the sub connection would be "plug-and-play" how naïve on my part, I guess!
...I really like that REL. Are you happy with it?
Would you dare compare REL products to the Polk I am looking at?

Thank you all.
a.



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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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LiquidBlue
Seasoned Member
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Posts: 137
Re: Adding a powered sub
Reply #5 - 11/05/24 at 09:13:40
 
There are essentially three ways to connect your sub, based on the input connections offered on the sub. There is LFE, which is to connect to a HT receiver to send the audio signals from a movies low frequency audio channel to the sub. Then there is the low level/line in connection to connect with RCA cables to a source with sub out connections or to a preamp. Lastly, there is the high level connection which connects via speaker cables, directly to the speaker jacks on your amplifier. I find this to be the best way to connect the sub for music. Your sub has the first two connections, but not high level connections, so you'd have to have a preamp or source with RCA out to connect the sub.

I've never used or heard the Polk sub, to be able to comment or compare. However, based on the design of the sub, it seems to be primarily a home theater type sub. I've used both ported and sealed subs and I find the sealed subs are tighter and more musical than the ported ones, which tend to be more boomy and geared to HT. I have used several subs from different manufacturers, including Klipsch and the REL. The Klipsch reference sub I had was marketed for both music and HT, but was a large ported sub and never gave good clean bass for music, unlike the REL. It did take me some work to set up the REL correctly, with placement and adjusting the output level and crossover, but it now blends perfectly with my speakers to give a really great presentation.

I will say adding a sub is not without drawbacks. I find my speakers to be very fast, articulate, textured and clean. If I try to use the sub to accentuate the low to upper bass, the sound does get a little muddy compared to no sub. Perhaps some more work with placement/settings may help, but I don't imagine it could get as good as a great pair of speakers with excellent low end extension. I find my Omega's to have very good bass, but don't extend to to the lowest registers in music. For my use, I use the sub to fill in the lower bass that my speakers don't reproduce and though there may be better options to get the best sound, I am very very pleased with what I'm getting with my set up. The sub does blend very well and just disappears. I've considered trying a Z-Rock, to see if that may eliminate the need for the sub. I know it won't fill in that lowest region, but perhaps a boost in the low end may be satisfying enough and I'm sure it would be the cleanest sound of the two options, but I've not yet taken that leap to try. So for now I do find the REL to be a great addition to fill in the bottom end. They do one thing and do it well, so I can recommend it. I know others here use other subs like Rythmik direct servo subs, etc. Perhaps someone can chime in with more on an option like that, and what benefits they may bring instead.

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Mofi Ultradeck w/ Hana ML>Sutherland Insight>Eversolo DMP-A6>CSP3-A>SE84UFO25>Omega Super Alnico Monitors>REL T7i
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Bottlehead
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Posts: 569
Re: Adding a powered sub
Reply #6 - 11/06/24 at 06:10:08
 
I have a question for any who may have experience with this. Can you describe the difference between going directly from the speaker jacks on the amp to the subwoofer vs going from the speaker jacks of the primary speakers to the subwoofer? From what the owner of an audio shop in Seattle told me, the second way of connecting a subwoofer is favored by British audiophiles (although I have no way of verifying that). So I would basically be daisy-chaining the speakers and the subwoofer. I’m curious about this because to go from my amp location to my subwoofer would require some seriously long speaker cables, whereas my main speakers are between the amp location and the sub location, cutting the length of the speaker cables in half.  

Thanks,
Randy
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CAJames
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Posts: 2279
Re: Adding a powered sub
Reply #7 - 11/06/24 at 15:48:40
 
Quote:
Posted by: Bottlehead      Posted on: Yesterday at 22:10:08

I have a question for any who may have experience with this. Can you describe the difference between going directly from the speaker jacks on the amp to the subwoofer vs going from the speaker jacks of the primary speakers to the subwoofer...


I have no experience with subwoofers, so this is very much FWIW/YMMV. But what you are talking about in electronic terms is connecting the sub in series vs. in parallel with the speakers. In that situation, and given the input impedance of the sub is (typically) very large the math says six-of-one half-dozen-of-the-other. To me, short speaker cables are always better so I'd go whichever way has the shortest cable run. But I'm curious if anyone has practical experience to compare with theory.

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[FOOBAR2000 | Jay's CDT2 MRK3] -> Denafrips Terminator 2 + Gaia
Sumiko Pearwood -> Mapleknoll Athena -> Luxman SUT -> Mapletree Phono 3E
STR-1002 -> Woo WA22 -> 2x UFO25s, balanced monos
Omega SAM , Hifiman Arya, Audeze LCD-XC
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Coyote
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Posts: 185
Re: Adding a powered sub
Reply #8 - 11/07/24 at 05:56:41
 
LiquidBlue

Thank you for the detail message.

I will have the opportunity to visit a friend of a friend who has a REL 5x (who knew!) hopefully this weekend.
But to be honest I am already sold on it.
It seem to be much better quality and goes to lower frequencies.
I am also told by my hifi dealer that the REL would integrate nicely with the Polk audio for the HT task. That means physically moving it around but I am 0k with that for the time being.

I will see what happens and come back to report.

a.

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My modest system:
SE84UFO2.(2).
Quad mono 303 (x2) + 33 + FM3.
Marantz 2235.
Schiit Mani.
Technic SL23.
Thorens TD160 MKII + SME III tonearm. Ortophon OM10.
Oppo CD/DVD.
Celestion Ditton 66 studio.
Lii F15 in Betsy type OB.
ATAUDIO 12TC Pure OCC.
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