"So how and what do these things do that my computer doesn't do?"

Your computer is very capable but many believe that computers introduce noise into the signal along with the USB cable.

"So can you digital out of them into my DAC?"

Yes for most models.

"And is the only way to use them is by using your phone?"

For most streamers you will need a smartphone to access all of the functions. I use an iPad with mine.

"I would appreciate some buttons or knobs."

These are software driven devices that don't require tactile controls. Most people prefer the old fashion remote but a smartphone, etc. is mandatory, many of the streamers don't even have screens. These devices operate in the digital realm where things such as the analog volume knob have been replaced by digital volume control. Same with bass/treble controls that have been replaced by graphic EQs that work digitally. Many streamers are half sized components that don't have room for knobs and buttons.

The best way to learn about them is by reading the owner manuals. You have one very specific requirement..."I have tens of thousands of songs on my computer". Hopefully you have those backed up. I'm guessing that not all streamers can deal with that many songs. I would research that fully and you may have a few different options on how to integrate them into your streamer.

I'm not into touchscreens on stereo equipment, can't stand the fingerprints.

Good luck and let your ears guide you on the streamer DAC vs. your Denafrips.

Donnie,

The question I have for you is: Do you really want to sign up for a streaming service and actually stream music?

I bought the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 because I wanted to try out all of the streaming options out there such as Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube Music, Tidal, Qobuz etc...

I signed up for all of them as a free trial and tried them all. I then found out that I don't like streaming music at all.

Like you, I own my digital files in the best available format. I have about 4 terabytes of music overall. I have found that I prefer those files over streaming most of the time.

The CXN V2 is a great DAC and streamer and I can play all of my music off of a portable drive via USB with it. Even though the CXN does have a screen and buttons and a good remote...I find that using the app to browse all the albums and files is pretty much a must and that will likely be the way to use most streamers.

Your Denafrips is according to most if not all reviews a very good DAC. You might end up liking it's signature sound, or lack thereof as I've never heard one, better than the DAC on a new streamer, especially a much cheaper one. If your Denafrips has a USB B port, then that option is usually quite good if not better than SPDIF optical or coaxial if you want to play very high res files as it tends to support higher formats.

For me at least, playing my music files via a high end USB A to USB B cable has been the best option so far.

Quote:


LOL—a tad below the belt James?

I approach it from a different perspective.  No qualms about renting music.  I’m paying for a service. With time, consumption models have evolved.  Software as a Service is not only widely accepted, but also here to stay.

These streaming service value prop is very compelling. It allows one to access (theoretically) millions of songs at a higher quality with a click of a button.  To amass that kind of library of local or physical files is not only financially taxing, but logistically challenging (storage).  For most, it’s not worth the headache.  

Secondly, the better streamers or platforms like Roon, offer a host of other important benefits including Artist bios and the ability to DISCOVER new music.  That exploration and discovery are largely unobtainable with using local/physical files.  Underlying this is great software (again, this is what you’re paying for) that should be rock solid to allow you to search, create playlists on the fly, and discover new artists.

Thirdly, as James mentioned—-he customized his pc to combat the weaknesses inherent in a multi-purpose device—mostly noise.  Streamers are custom built for you.  They are optimized to have one dedicated function.  Not everyone has the knowhow to DIY and even then, it just might be a long shot.

In an audio chain, where everything matters, the importance of a good digital streaming source cannot be overstated.  That is what feeds the DAC.  Your Denafrips could be best DAC in the world but if it’s getting a crappy feed, its performance will be compromised.  Things like Linear Power supplies and clocks matter (especially if you want the DAC to just convert and the streamer to clock).

I do not have personal experience with the Eversolo brand but as was mentioned earlier, they seem to be generating consistently great reviews.  Another brand that should be on your radar is BlueSound.  They also make really good streamers and their software is rock solid.

When I upgraded from Bluesound to Innuos—it really encapsulated the benefits of having a world class LPS, better engineering/internals, and software optimization can do to make that source signal as pristine as possible.  My DAC benefited from that.  

And to be able to operate it from either my iPhone or iPad—-that’s a must have feature—-not a con.  

Lots of good comments. Being pretty ignorant about internet streaming too, but trying, here are my latest thoughts.

No experience Donnie, but I thought Roon and Tidal in particular could be set up to do what you want... the software figuring out what you might like based on what you play, and like collaborative filtering with movies, getting more and more refined as you go???

I would really like to try it, especially for finding new music. Though by reports not as good as playing uncompressed, error corrected files from the right computer setups, or well designed dedicated streamers with their own, for-audio systems and software, I would love to get decent streamer sound. Luckily, it is sounding more and more possible to dip the toe into without breaking the bank as tech and experimentation refine.

My current "server" is a dedicated tuned-up-for-Audio 2011 Mac Mini. It has seriously stripped down system software designed for audio only, and the base OS made before all the "background" processing with security stuff... With this already quiet computer design, no screen and made with pretty optimal parts, including a heavy aluminum case (pretty well shielded), and clean power and cables, optimal sounding feet, separate busses for the external drive and USB out, I had similar experiences as James...incremental refinements all improving the whole. But I would go on to say, all together, it is like a different computer than stock... a very resolving, extended, big, and smooth local file streamer. I would love to get nearly as good internet streamer sound through my main system. The trouble is, the OS is so old, today's streaming software will not work, and the OS would be a lot to lose judging from memory of how much the OS improved the stream sound.

So I have wandered all around, looking at Pi kits, Pi based ready-made streamers, and others I would use like you are suggesting Donnie, the streamer playing through my DAC. But I also keep coming back to a Eversolo DMP-8, having nice design considerations that I figure I can tune up with mods, and amazing touch and go functionality like HK pointed to. Who knows, with the design and all the options for tuning and using it, I figure I may even like the AKM based DAC and ladder pre??? But I am so slow, in part because my whole front end package is so refined, revealing and musical... it is amazing. So good that all the many refinements I have made in my system over the years I have had this front end, they just keep making the front end better... making it easier to hear how complete and musical it is. And I have enough music on my drive to keep moderately satisfied, so hard to get motivated enough to dive into new tech for me.

At the same time, whenever I think it would be hard to get much better in my room, it always has so far with the right refinements! And the thirst for easy to try music, with filtering based on my tastes is getting stronger, so I keep looking at DACs and streamers....

Lately I have been having a conversation with Garry Huang, the Musical Paradise guy, my interest in his ongoing refinement of his modular DACs. Judging from his seemingly smallish, but supportive community of folks who love his DACs (partly because they are easily tuned to taste), and looking at his design considerations, it appears to me he is pretty up on DAC tech and sound. Assumption, but what I am thinking.

With his DAC he offers an integrated Pi board option for a streaming endpoint. With a music-dedicated minicomputer Pi can be, you can choose from several well known Pi based Player software/OSs. I told Garry I was used to a refined Mini with a specially modified Singxer USB Bridge and also optimized Gustard 20pro DAC as a reference to talk about his DAC and the streamer option. Wondering how his Pi board with Volumio software would sound for my particular needs, maybe because of how I described my sound being really refined (?), he thought I would get closer to the sound I need using Audirvana in the Mini, and streamer software running through Audirvana. Another way to look at it anyway, especially if the server computer is highly optimized and capable for Audio. So lately I have been imagining this could be a good stepping off place for me anyway, and maybe with the latest Audirvana engine, including its ways of making the computer more devoted to audio, and the Musical Paradise DAC to tune together... I may not miss the maxed out OS I have???

I am thinking, if not, at least I will have tried streaming at a fairly low cost for that part, and could go back to my current system and Amarra player software, and get a dedicated internet streamer if I want. Am I dreaming???

I use this. Not expensive and sounds great.

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/dummies-guide-to-pi2aes-...

Hi Donnie,

Just to keep your head spinning....I also use a Mac mini with an SSD and replaced the internal power supply with a internal card/external LPS.  I also have one of those USB noise reducing things that were all the rage a few years ago.  Like Will, the problem has been keeping up with the streaming software.   About a year ago I had to buy another mini so that I could  continue to Stream Tidal.

I use Audirvana Studio as my main software and it integrates with Tidal, Qobuz and a few more streaming services.  It can also integrate your digital files as well.  You can have Audirvana run in "exclusive mode" so it shut lots of the other noise producing stuff down and only keeps what it needs going to play music.

I mostly use my phone to control everything, but can also use my wireless mouse and keyboard.

I have ripped CDs, a bunch of high quality downloads and streaming (and a turntable).  I mostly stream now because of the vast library.  I am constantly adding to playlists.

One bonus is I also have Audirvana on my Macbook Air so when I travel or go to the cottage, I have all my music at my fingertips.

I looked into streamers a couple years ago but bailed due to analysis paralysis.  I've always wanted to compare them to the mini to see if I'm missing anything with the Mac mini setup.