Forums - Bizarre noise

Dominick

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Bizarre noise
03/28/25 at 00:48:09

I was playing my system this afternoon and heard the most bizarre noise that I’ve never encountered. I was playing my Torii MKIV with the following components attached….ZBIT, ZROCK2, CSP2+, Schiit Bifrost 2, and streaming Roon with my core coming a PC, and the Roon bridge coming from my Raspberri Pi 4B+. Everything was warmed up and playing music for at least 1/2 hour. Out of nowhere I heard this loud crackling electrical noise that was reminiscent of like an bug zapper. I didn’t observe any tubes flashing as I started to power everything down by first lowering the volume on the Torii and then the CSP. I then stopped the song in Roon that was playing. The noise was still playing through the speakers at this point. The Torii was shut down first, then the DAC, then finally the CSP2.

First off…any insight as to what may have caused that? The tubes in the Torii are fairly new. The CSP tubes are a bit older. My inkling it that the Decware Rectifer in the CSP may be the culprit.

Now the fun part is the troubleshooting? I could use some help on the process on where to start, and the sequence of a how to isolate the components the get to the bottom of the bug zapping sound.

Thanks in advance.

Dom

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CAJames

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Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #1 - 03/28/25 at 01:40:04

My first guess is it is a tube. My first guess is always a tube. Specifically a power tube in the Torii.

I'd start by powering up just the Torii. If you hear something start swapping tubes, I'd start with the power tubes. If you don't hear anything for ~10 minutes than power up the CSP. If you hear something power off the CSP to determine if the noise is in the amp or the pre. Then start swapping tubes.

If you still haven't heard anything then power everything else up and listen to music. Once is an anomaly, twice is a trend. If it happens again power off the CSP to see if you can isolate it to the Torii. Also look at the meters and see if one (or more) has a funny reading.

There is a small but finite chance the issue is with your source, but that seems unlikely if you heard the noise with the volume all the way off.

Keep us posted.

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Dominick

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Still like that old
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Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #2 - 03/30/25 at 20:37:24

Thanks James! So after some testing yesterday, it seems as though the CSP is the problem. I put several rectifiers (1 new) and several new input and output tubes into the CSP, and I was getting a low constant hum coming through my headphones, even with the main gain on the CSP all the down.

Today I’m going to bypass the CSP in the signal chain to see if the weird buzzing goes away. I plan to setup a phone conversation with Steve this week, and probably have the unit sent in for an evaluation. I’ll probably then do a warranty transfer on the unit with a new tube set.

I’ll report back later after I do some more testing.

Dom

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CAJames Seasoned Member "I've run every red light on memory lane." Posts: 2386	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #3 - 03/30/25 at 21:46:05 You're very welcome Dom. Steve is way smarter than I am so I'll defer to him if there is anything else to test, but I sounds like the original loud noise is gone and that is good news. Hopefully it was just a fluke. And hopefully you can get the CSP fixed up quickly.
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Dominick

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Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

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Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #4 - 03/31/25 at 01:53:55

Well I jumped the gun….I started to isolate components and the noise came back. When I removed the CSP from the signal chain, I was still getting the noise.

I then bypassed my Bifrost2 DAC and utilized my Audioquest Dragon Red DAC, and the noise was still present. I then isolated my ZROCK2 and removed it from the signal chain and so far everything is quiet. This component was the least susceptible since I refreshed that tube only two months ago.

Edit: Well a funny thing happened as I was playing with the ZROCK2…. I powered it down to remove the tube and then I started hearing the noise again. Now it looks like the culprit may be a bad set of cables somewhere in the signal chain. That’s tomorrow’s project but at least I am making headway.

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HockessinKid

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Posts: 1240

Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #5 - 03/31/25 at 13:19:20

Dom,

I hope you are able to chase down the culprit. There is nothing more frustrating than trying to find and resolve a system noise problem. I had a continuing problem with a buzzing noise in both speakers, which I finally determined was coming from my Zen Mystery amp last year.

Tried a bunch of "remedies" including some of VeraFi products which reduced but did not eliminate problems which I thought might be AC induced. Finally a short length of pick up wire from a negative amp terminal to a chassis screw did the trick, properly grounding the amplifier.

I hope this approach might help others trying to fix a Decware amplifier hum or buzz noise especially when you have a pair of very sensitive speakers. Noise, especially heard from your listening position, can really ruin the experience.

HK

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Coqui

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Posts: 46

Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #6 - 03/31/25 at 13:45:03

I am currently having a noise issue with my ToriiMK5, which I received in June of 2024. It has been dead quiet until a few weeks ago. One day, I forgot to follow the sequence of turning on the tube preamp first and then turn on the Torii. I heard a pop followed by the a loud high pitch sound. I immediately turned both the amp and the preamp off. Since then, I have had a persistent noise, mostly on the left channel. I systematically changed all the tubes from the right channel to the left and the noise persisted on the left channel. The noise is pretty loud and it sounds like a bathroom fan. The amplifier sounds great and the sound is less audible when I play music at moderate to loud levels.

My next step is connect the amplifier to my second system, which has different speakers, different cables, and no preamplifier.

I would appreciate any ideas or suggestions. Thanks!

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CAJames

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Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #7 - 03/31/25 at 15:26:08

Quote:

Posted by: Dominick Posted on: Yesterday at 17:53:55

...Now it looks like the culprit may be a bad set of cables somewhere in the signal chain. That’s tomorrow’s project but at least I am making headway.

Have you convinced yourself the noise isn't coming from the Torii instead of something upstream? Like if you hear the noise and turn the volume on the Torii all the way down does the noise go away? What about tapping on the tubes, does that make it any better or worse? Lots of stuff is possible but what you describe still sounds more like tubes than a bad interconnect.

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Dominick

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Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 1397

Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #8 - 03/31/25 at 16:04:22

Quote:

Have you convinced yourself the noise isn't coming from the Torii instead of something upstream? Like if you hear the noise and turn the volume on the Torii all the way down does the noise go away? What about tapping on the tubes, does that make it any better or worse? Lots of stuff is possible but what you describe still sounds more like tubes than a bad interconnect.

Hmm…while I would like to say that I am almost certain that is not the Torii… at this point i’m not ruling anything out. The noise originated about a week ago when I was using my Zens…It was faint and nowhere near as loud. So I decided switch over to the Torrii. With the noise now getting louder, I would hypothesize that it would be a bad tube.

But… I am getting the noise with the gain on all of the units turned down. I will try and tap on the tubes to see if that creates the noise. I think my approach at this point is to start off as basic as possible with the least amount of components in the signal chain.

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CAJames Seasoned Member "I've run every red light on memory lane." Posts: 2386	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #9 - 03/31/25 at 16:45:38 Quote: Posted by: Dominick Posted on: Today at 08:04:22 ... I am getting the noise with the gain on all of the units turned down... JMO but that means the noise is coming from the power amp, not anything upstream.
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Dominick Seasoned Member Still like that old time Rock and Roll!! Posts: 1397	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #10 - 03/31/25 at 17:58:05 James….makes sense. I guess I was a bit throw off by it happening to the Zen’s as well. That would mean that that power tubes on both amps would be an issue. Definitely not out of the question. I think I kept my old KT66 tubes when I put the 77’s in….so I’m going to do that first. Let the fun begin for day two.
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Dominick

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Still like that old
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Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #11 - 03/31/25 at 23:01:52

Well today has been one hell of adventure for the past few hours. Unbeknownst to me I was actually dealing with two problems. After isolating components and methodically coming up with possible component combinations, by adding and removing them from the signal chain, I then started to have no music playing. This really made the diagnosis that much more difficult.

So here are the conclusions thus far that I know for sure.

1. The GL KT77’s were definitely causing the loud buzzing. (James…..you were on the money). Throwing in my used but still good KT66’s produced no buzzing. When I swapped the 77’s back in, they produced buzzing inside of a few minutes.

2. The CSP2+ is also faulting. When taken out of the signal chain..I had music. When put back into the signal chain….no music. So now I need to see if the tubes are causing it, or if it’s an internal issue. I’m going to try the CSP with headphones to see what happens.

So now it’s time to grab some new tubes for the CSP to see if it’s a tube issue.

Hey …at least I can listen to music in the interim.

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Dominick

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Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 1397

Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #12 - 04/01/25 at 01:16:38

Well sad to say…it looks like the CSP2 has some sort of internal issue going on. I replaced all the tubes and added the CSP back into the signal chain with no luck. Going to place a call into Decware tomorrow, obtain an RMA number, and send the unit back to Decware. I will set up a phone conversation with Steve to discuss if it’s worth making any upgrades or changes to the internals depending on what he finds. The unit already has the 25th Anniversay mods, so I’m hoping it’s something not cap related. This was Lon’s old unit whom I acquired it from Joe Lazenby. I never did the warranty transfer, so this may the perfect time to do it.

Now the tough part….listening to music with out a preamp. Ughh!!

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CAJames Seasoned Member "I've run every red light on memory lane." Posts: 2386	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #13 - 04/01/25 at 01:23:11 I guess that's what they call good news, bad news Dom. Hopefully Steve can get the CSP fixed up and sounding better than ever.
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Dominick Seasoned Member Still like that old time Rock and Roll!! Posts: 1397	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #14 - 04/01/25 at 01:51:19 Very true James. The KT77’s are far superior in its characteristics to the KT66’s in my opinion. While I would love to buy a new quad of KT77’s, i need to hold off until I fix the CSP. I think it may be time to go back to the Zen's for a while.
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hdrider

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Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #15 - 04/01/25 at 01:56:40

Dom - I think you are on the correct path to recovery. I bought our CSP3 from a forum member and had him ship it to Decware to change the base from black to walnut and to do the warranty transfer. Time and money well spent in my opinion. CAJames, good detective work as always. At least you still have tunes in the meantime. Happy listening, Chris.

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JBzen Seasoned Member Posts: 1511	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #16 - 04/01/25 at 09:36:45 Sorry to hear Dom. Did you happen to look under the hood in the CSP2? Ruling out tubes, the ill sound description could be a sizzling cap going bad.
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Dominick

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Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

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Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #17 - 04/01/25 at 22:03:37

Quote:

Sorry to hear Dom. Did you happen to look under the hood in the CSP2? Ruling out tubes, the ill sound description could be a sizzling cap going bad.

John…as of now I didn’t inspect under the hood. I’m off tomorrow, so I think it will warrant an inspection. I wonder if there is a secondary fuse under the hood. All of the tubes light up and get to operating temperatures. I tried finding the manual for the CSP2, but all I was able to locate was the webpage back when the unit released through he waybackmachine archive website.

Thanks Chris…I have a phone conversation setup with Steve for Thursday, so we see what he says.

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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25563	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #18 - Yesterday at 00:40:29 Should be a three panel fuse board under the chassis. One is a 5 amp fuse for the rectifier, then I think two 500 ma fuses, one for each channel. One of the smaller value amps could be going faulty.
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Dominick Seasoned Member Still like that old time Rock and Roll!! Posts: 1397	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #19 - Yesterday at 01:40:13 Thanks Lon….I was actually going to shoot you a PM about that. I had a hunch that it may be a possibility. The unit has been rock solid since I’ve owned it. I’m hopeful I can rectify the issue myself without sending it back. Do you know if the 5 amp fuse is a slow blow?
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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25563	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #20 - Yesterday at 04:12:27 I think yes, a slow blow. My guess is it's not that 5 amp as when that goes the rectifier itself does not light up.
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Dominick Seasoned Member Still like that old time Rock and Roll!! Posts: 1397	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #21 - Yesterday at 13:44:52 Ok… thanks Lon. I’ll keep you posted. Not having the CSP in the signal chain is a real bummer.
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Dominick Seasoned Member Still like that old time Rock and Roll!! Posts: 1397	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #22 - Yesterday at 20:26:53 So after inspection there are no fuses under the hood. But I do see 2 small tubes wired up. Here are a few pics under the hood. Hopefully they are the cause.
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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25563	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #23 - Yesterday at 23:21:13 I couldn't remember if that had the fuse board inside or not. . . I doubt those little voltage regulation tubes are the cause of the hum. Steve would know.
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Dominick Seasoned Member Still like that old time Rock and Roll!! Posts: 1397	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #24 - Today at 04:00:09 Lon….as of now I am not getting any sound out of the CSP at all. The noise/hum was a bad KT77 tube in the Torii.
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JBzen Seasoned Member Posts: 1511	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #25 - Today at 08:53:53 Good luck in your call with Steve today. Thanks for the pictures. All looks good from my point of view. When I had my white CSP2+ opened, it was noticed that the black contemporary base is walnut that has been painted. I plan on refinishing it to match the ZP3's walnut base. Also planing a 25th upgrade later this year by Steve.
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Lon Seasoned Member "Love without guts is worthless!" Philip K. Dick Posts: 25563	Re: Bizarre noise Reply #26 - Today at 11:16:07 Dominick wrote on Today at 04:00:09: Lon….as of now I am not getting any sound out of the CSP at all. The noise/hum was a bad KT77 tube in the Torii. Sorry. . . I got confused. I hope that Steve and you can straighten it out without a trip to the mothership.
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Dominick

Seasoned Member

Still like that old
time Rock and Roll!!

Posts: 1397

Re: Bizarre noise
Reply #27 - Today at 15:37:24

Quote:

Sorry. . . I got confused. I hope that Steve and you can straighten it out without a trip to the mothership.

No worries….it was confusing for me as well..dealing 2 separate issues at the same time. Yeah I’d rather not have to send it back if at all possible.

Quote:

Good luck in your call with Steve today. Thanks for the pictures. All looks good from my point of view.
When I had my white CSP2+ opened, it was noticed that the black contemporary base is walnut that has been painted. I plan on refinishing it to match the ZP3's walnut base. Also planing a 25th upgrade later this year by Steve.

Thanks John… i’m sure the conversation will be enlightening. My white ZP3 has the Victorian base…so at some point I would like the ZP3 and the CSP to both match. The previous owner of the ZP3 had the walnut base, but he cant find it. So the decision I have to make is whether or not I make them both walnut bases or Victorian bases.
The CSP base could use a bit of TLC… so I may make that a summer project to sand it down and re-stain it.

Edit: as a last ditch effort I replaced my RCA’s with a alternate pair and even reversed the 3A fuse. Still nothing.

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